RAAC and private dwellings?

NameUnavailable

I expect everyone has seen/heard about RAAC in the press recently.

All the reports mention its use in public buildings (schools, hospitals, courts etc), and possibly some council built high rise flats.

What I can't find is whether it was used generally at the time - I live in a late 60's built low rise block with a flat roof, so am now concerned that this could be an issue! I can't see any obvious evidence of it from looking outside and at the bare concrete floors under some kitchen cupboards, but wonder why it would be used extensively in public buildings but not in other types of building?

Has anyone come across anything more detailed yet?

NameUnavailable

No responses to my post but now this on the BBC website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66733888

''But the public sector is the easy bit because the government has control over that and knows where it is. But when you move to the private sector - you are mainly looking at 1960s, 1970s offices, factories and warehouses and possibly some housing where you may not know who owns it," Prof Goodier said.

Hello379

Thank you for sharing the details, I have the same concern. 

I am in the process of purchasing a similar property i.e. a top floor flat in a shared 1960s built block as a leaseholder with a share of freehold and am getting close to agreeing a date for exchange of contracts.

I have heard, though still to be confirmed, that the property was converted from an army barracks so is potentially at risk of RAAC as ex public sector and built in the 1960s. 

However just like you I presume that even if the property is not ex public sector then RAAC could still have been used.

So I am wondering if it is reasonable to request the management company to undertake a RAAC investigation ahead of exchange of contracts as I have confirmed no checks have been completed or are scheduled.

If anyone has any further information or advice it would really be appreciated!

TheJP

Hello379 said:

Thank you for sharing the details, I have the same concern. 

I am in the process of purchasing a similar property i.e. a top floor flat in a shared 1960s built block as a leaseholder with a share of freehold and am getting close to agreeing a date for exchange of contracts.

I have heard, though still to be confirmed, that the property was converted from an army barracks so is potentially at risk of RAAC as ex public sector and built in the 1960s. 

However just like you I presume that even if the property is not ex public sector then RAAC could still have been used.

So I am wondering if it is reasonable to request the management company to undertake a RAAC investigation ahead of exchange of contracts as I have confirmed no checks have been completed or are scheduled.

If anyone has any further information or advice it would really be appreciated!

As its a private sale this would be generalised by any other private sale, caveat emptor. You are responsible for commissioning the due diligence.

eddddy

Hello379 said:

So I am wondering if it is reasonable to request the management company to undertake a RAAC investigation ahead of exchange of contracts as I have confirmed no checks have been completed or are scheduled.

Just to clarify the 'dynamics'....

• The flat is described as 'share of freehold'. That means that most/all the leasehold flat owners also jointly own the freehold building

• Usually (but not always), it's the building's joint owners who hire the management company - and tell them what to do.

• So if you want, you can tell your seller (who is one of the building's joint owners) that you need a RAAC survey done

• Then it's up to the seller to convince the other joint owners of the building that a RAAC survey is a good idea

• Then the joint owners can instruct their management company to arrange a RAAC survey

BUT.., the seller is free to refuse your request, and/or the building's other joint owners are also free to refuse your request


(And details above assume that the lease has 2 parties. If the lease is tri-partite, the situation would be different. But your request should still go to the seller.)

MultiFuelBurner

The risk for me would be too high in such an important purchase.

I would look elsewhere if there was a chance of RAAC used in the construction of a property I was considering buying.

user1977

Hello379 said:

So I am wondering if it is reasonable to request the management company to undertake a RAAC investigation ahead of exchange of contracts as I have confirmed no checks have been completed or are scheduled

It's probably more realistic to get your own survey done (assuming any such concrete would be accessible - it's gong to be less realistic to expect your vendor or other parties to tolerate a survey which requires making holes to inspect hidden parts of the structure.)

eddddy

I think there's a good chance that a 'largish' access hole would have to be cut in a false ceiling to check the roof for RAAC problems.

A RAAC roof typically looks like this from the underside - concrete 'planks' supported on a steel structure:




For a residential building, a false ceiling would probably be added underneath - either when the building was built or converted.

There might or might not be a void/gap between the roof and the false ceiling - but even if there is, the false ceiling probably won't be designed to be strong enough to allow a person to walk on it.

I guess a surveyor could cut a small hole in a false ceiling and put a camera through. That might tell you if the roof used a "concrete plank" construction - but not if the planks were RAAC or if the RAAC is in poor condition.


FWIW, I spoke to a structural engineer who said he'd specified "RAAC type" concrete planks in the past. But they were solid all around the outside - and only aerated in the middle. So water can't get into the aerated part and cause problems.

But a surveyor would need to do a close inspection to determine the type of plank used.



Just as background info - commercial buildings with RAAC roofs often have suspended ceilings underneath the roof, which are much easier to remove and replace. So an inspection is often much easier.

Hello379

Thank you so much to everyone for all your replies and advice. I just joined the forum yesterday to post this and I am amazed by this community and how helpful everyone is.

Special thanks to Eddddy for all the detail you initially provided and then your follow up with even more. It really helps my understanding, especially seeing the photos. Thank you.

I will take all the responses into consideration. I have spoken today to the surveyor who completed the original survey (before RAAC hit the headlines recently) to understand the likely cost and disruption from further investigations. As a result I will discuss further with my solicitor and the seller, then of course decide next steps based on the remaining risk. I am quite risk averse, especially with such an expensive purchase.

Apologies to the original poster for taking over the thread, I hope some of the information is useful for you too, and thank you so much for your original post.

Knollyjam1

Hello379, out of interest, what was the outcome / what did you decide to do? I am in a similar situation myself and a little unsure!

Hello379

Hi Knollyjam1, after a lot more checks we decided to go ahead with the purchase. 

We spent a lot more time talking with our surveyor who was really helpful. We discussed actually doing a specific investigation for RAAC and the cost of this. Although the owner was reluctant to proceed with this he did agree.

However in the meantime our surveyor managed to unearth some further information on how the building was constructed without undertaking an inspection and this allayed our concerns.

We are happy with our decision and we have had some extensive renovation done which has not identified any issues.

Every case will be different, but I would suggest working closely with your surveyor to understand the level of risk and check with the management company if any RAAC inspections have been undertaken. If checks have not been done and you remain concerned then see if the owner is amenable to an inspection but do discuss with your surveyor the costs, disruption and likelihood of a clear conclusion from any inspection.

Wishing you all the best.