Traffic Offence Report - Parked on a road with middle double white lines

tifo

Car_54 said:

Who offered the 4 points and £100? AFAIK prosecutors can't do that in this country?

The prosecuter did.

TooManyPoints

The prosecuter did.

Then I definitely think you have been told porkies. It is not in the prosecutor's gift to "offer" any particular sentence in return for a guilty plea, especially one which seemingly did not involve any supplementary orders such as Victim Surcharge and prosecution costs (though it is in his gift to decline to ask for costs). That is entirely a matter for the Bench.

nayfeee

I received this letter today.

The time on the letter differs to the notice left on my car. I was categorically not there at midnight and my car was parked safely on the drive. Therefore I cannot provide details of who was driving at the time stated, as nobody was.

Does anyone have advice on how to proceed? I can not complete the enclosed form as there was no driver at that time.

Many thanks in advance.

TooManyPoints

You actually have two separate documents.

The first is a "Notice of Intended Prosecution" (a "NIP"). This is required, by section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act (RTOA), for certain offences. It is simply a notice and requires no response. The Act says it must warn the recipient that a prosecution is under consideration and it must provide "...the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed". If the offence you are alleged to have committed is covered by s1, it would appear that the NIP is deficient and may be a bar to a successful prosecution. However, you mention a notice attached to your car. What was this notice? What did it say and what heading did it have?

The second document is a "Section 172" request for driver's details. You have an obligation to respond to this but you can only reply to the question you are asked. You cannot be expected to second guess the information the police need from you. How long prior to midnight did the alleged offence actually occur?

You need to tread a little carefully with this. If the NIP is deficient, and you were not formally warned "at the time"(hence my question about the first notice) then no prosecution for the offence can succeed. But before you respond to the s172 request it would be wise to wait until 14 days after the offence date. This is because a NIP must be served within 14 days. If you respond to the s172 request by saying nobody was driving your car at 00:00, the police may make enquiries and issue an amended NIP. If they do so after 14 days the NIP does not meet the requirements of the RTOA.

I have a suspicion that no time was input when the NIP and s172 request were prepared. You may be able to turn this to your advantage, but you must be careful. 

nayfeee

TooManyPoints said:

You actually have two separate documents.

The first is a "Notice of Intended Prosecution" (a "NIP"). This is required, by section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act (RTOA), for certain offences. It is simply a notice and requires no response. The Act says it must warn the recipient that a prosecution is under consideration and it must provide "...the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed". If the offence you are alleged to have committed is covered by s1, it would appear that the NIP is deficient and may be a bar to a successful prosecution. However, you mention a notice attached to your car. What was this notice? What did it say and what heading did it have?

The second document is a "Section 172" request for driver's details. You have an obligation to respond to this but you can only reply to the question you are asked. You cannot be expected to second guess the information the police need from you. How long prior to midnight did the alleged offence actually occur?

You need to tread a little carefully with this. If the NIP is deficient, and you were not formally warned "at the time"(hence my question about the first notice) then no prosecution for the offence can succeed. But before you respond to the s172 request it would be wise to wait until 14 days after the offence date. This is because a NIP must be served within 14 days. If you respond to the s172 request by saying nobody was driving your car at 00:00, the police may make enquiries and issue an amended NIP. If they do so after 14 days the NIP does not meet the requirements of the RTOA.

I have a suspicion that no time was input when the NIP and s172 request were prepared. You may be able to turn this to your advantage, but you must be careful. 

Thank you for the response 😊

The first thing I received was a "Traffic Offence Report" left by the police. The alleged offence on that slip was 2.24pm.

The request for driver's details says if I don't return it within 28 days I could be fined £1000 and receive 6 points?

This letter alleges me to be there at midnight when I categorically was not in the area.

Car_54

nayfeee said:

TooManyPoints said:

You actually have two separate documents.

The first is a "Notice of Intended Prosecution" (a "NIP"). This is required, by section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act (RTOA), for certain offences. It is simply a notice and requires no response. The Act says it must warn the recipient that a prosecution is under consideration and it must provide "...the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed". If the offence you are alleged to have committed is covered by s1, it would appear that the NIP is deficient and may be a bar to a successful prosecution. However, you mention a notice attached to your car. What was this notice? What did it say and what heading did it have?

The second document is a "Section 172" request for driver's details. You have an obligation to respond to this but you can only reply to the question you are asked. You cannot be expected to second guess the information the police need from you. How long prior to midnight did the alleged offence actually occur?

You need to tread a little carefully with this. If the NIP is deficient, and you were not formally warned "at the time"(hence my question about the first notice) then no prosecution for the offence can succeed. But before you respond to the s172 request it would be wise to wait until 14 days after the offence date. This is because a NIP must be served within 14 days. If you respond to the s172 request by saying nobody was driving your car at 00:00, the police may make enquiries and issue an amended NIP. If they do so after 14 days the NIP does not meet the requirements of the RTOA.

I have a suspicion that no time was input when the NIP and s172 request were prepared. You may be able to turn this to your advantage, but you must be careful. 

Thank you for the response 😊

The first thing I received was a "Traffic Offence Report" left by the police. The alleged offence on that slip was 2.24pm.

The request for driver's details says if I don't return it within 28 days I could be fined £1000 and receive 6 points?

£1,000 is the maximum, but the six points are inescapable. You would also receive a code on your licence which insurers dislike and would see your premiums soar for five years.  Follow TooManyPoints advice above and don't return it too early. You can only say that no-one was driving and that the car was parked.

This letter alleges me to be there at midnight when I categorically was not in the area.

It doesn't allege anything about you, just your car. They've no idea who was driving, hence the request.

See above. And post on pepipoo.com for further advice. There have been similar cases there before.

TooManyPoints

The request for driver's details says if I don't return it within 28 days I could be fined £1000 and receive 6 points?

Quite so. If you fail to respond at all you will face prosecution for "Failing to Provide Driver's details". Upon conviction this does indeed carry six points, a hefty fine and insurance grief for up to five years. 

If you respond as I suggested - that your car was not at the relevant place at the time mentioned - then one of two things may happen. Either the police will prosecute you under s172 or they may discontinue the matter out of "embarrassment"  (i.e. they cocked up). 

I would advise responding truthfully - that your car was not there at the time and nobody was driving it - but add nothing else. Do not say it was there at 2.24pm or add any other information at all. It's not up to you to sort out the mistake the police have made. But I would also delay your response until after day 14 so that no (adequate) amended NIP can be issued.

nayfeee

TooManyPoints said:

The request for driver's details says if I don't return it within 28 days I could be fined £1000 and receive 6 points?

Quite so. If you fail to respond at all you will face prosecution for "Failing to Provide Driver's details". Upon conviction this does indeed carry six points, a hefty fine and insurance grief for up to five years. 

If you respond as I suggested - that your car was not at the relevant place at the time mentioned - then one of two things may happen. Either the police will prosecute you under s172 or they may discontinue the matter out of "embarrassment"  (i.e. they cocked up). 

I would advise responding truthfully - that your car was not there at the time and nobody was driving it - but add nothing else. Do not say it was there at 2.24pm or add any other information at all. It's not up to you to sort out the mistake the police have made. But I would also delay your response until after day 14 so that no (adequate) amended NIP can be issued.

Absolutely excellent advice. Thank you for explaining so clearly and in a manner a numpty like me can understand. I really appreciate it!

TooManyPoints

You're welcome. Do let us know how it goes. Forgot to add, keep a photo-copy of your response and get a free certificate of posting from the PO. As well as that, there is the possibility that the police will issue another NIP and s172 request (with the correct details). If you leave it until after day 14 the NIP will not meet the requirements of the RTOA . But you will still be obliged to respond to an amended s172 request (they have no time limit). You will have to name yourself as driver but because of the lateness of the NIP, no prosecution should be successful.

As an aside, do you know what offence is alleged (so that I can check whether s1 of the RTOA applies) to it?

nayfeee

TooManyPoints said:

You're welcome. Do let us know how it goes. Forgot to add, keep a photo-copy of your response and get a free certificate of posting from the PO. As well as that, there is the possibility that the police will issue another NIP and s172 request (with the correct details). If you leave it until after day 14 the NIP will not meet the requirements of the RTOA . But you will still be obliged to respond to an amended s172 request (they have no time limit). You will have to name yourself as driver but because of the lateness of the NIP, no prosecution should be successful.

As an aside, do you know what offence is alleged (so that I can check whether s1 of the RTOA applies) to it?

Thank you. I will be sure to do that.

The alleged offence is failing to comply with double white lines.

For what it's worth, it's regarding parking on a road where there are solid white lines in the middle and not for crossing or overtaking on them however I believe the end result is the same (TS20 conviction and the points/fine that come with it).