Unfair "non refundable" deposit contract term

RefluentBeans

Have you spoken to the salon? Or are you going off the ‘non-refundable’ part of their terms? 

They should at least refund 1 x £20 if it was a clerical error. I would speak to them and ask for the money back and what costs they’re covering with the other £20. May be able to wrangle a few more £ from them. 

Miss.Twizz

RefluentBeans said:

Have you spoken to the salon? Or are you going off the ‘non-refundable’ part of their terms? 

They should at least refund 1 x £20 if it was a clerical error. I would speak to them and ask for the money back and what costs they’re covering with the other £20. May be able to wrangle a few more £ from them. 

Yes I have. They told me as it's "non refundable" they will only give a gift voucher as per their terms. 

bris

They mitigate the loss by finding another client for your time slot, but they don't need to find that client if they can get any potential clients at a different time. The chance of a client saying they want your time slot on your day only will be very unlikely.

So yes they can hold you in breach and charge full amount, depending on what you get done if there is hair dye etc involved they would have to discount the cost of that but their time can be non refundable if they have no one to fill your slot.

By giving you gift vouchers they are actually doing more than they need to do,

Miss.Twizz

bris said:

They mitigate the loss by finding another client for your time slot, but they don't need to find that client if they can get any potential clients at a different time. The chance of a client saying they want your time slot on your day only will be very unlikely.

So yes they can hold you in breach and charge full amount, depending on what you get done if there is hair dye etc involved they would have to discount the cost of that but their time can be non refundable if they have no one to fill your slot.

By giving you gift vouchers they are actually doing more than they need to do,

Thank you, but no, the evening appointments are like hotcakes and were snapped up via the booking app by other clients without anyone at the salon having to lift a finger. I have persued my unfair term claim. 

RefluentBeans

Seems like you've got a good case - I feel most 'non-refundable' deposits wouldn't actually stand up legally, and this does feel like they haven't actually lost any profit so I don't know on what basis they can keep the money. The only way is if they deem it a sign up fee (to cover any upfront cost of added a user to an app). But if that wasn't made clear, then I dont think they've got a leg to stand on. More likely, a small business who doesn't know the law and hasn't been had any issues yet, but certainly doesn't excuse bad practices like this - a 'I didn't know I was breaking the law because I didn't know that law' is no legal defense!

Miss.Twizz

Thanks everyone, all sorted and it's now been fully refunded. I think when it became clear I was going to fight it they gave up quite easily. I think you're probably right RefluentBeans, they didn't know the legalities and decided it wasn't worth the risk persisting when they didn't know if they were in the wrong or not. 

Uplander1111

I am latching on to this thread for obvious reasons but if this is not the done thing I am sure somebody will put me straight.

In July 2022 I placed a pre-order for a model train - £30 of an eventual £130.  There was no guaranteed delivery date and I accept that they take advance orders to support the production run.  That said and as far as I recall, it intimated that delivery would be something like Q1/Q2 of 2023.  We are now heading towards Q4 and the shop acknowledges that they have no idea when the model will be available.  They say I may cancel the order but that I will forfeit the deposit; to quote "it is not uncommon in this industry for pre-order items to take 2 sometimes 3 years to arrive".  They also say that the retention of the deposit is covered in their T&C's.

I am prepared to wait until 2024 but I am beginning to feel as if I (and probably many others) are being treated somewhat unfairly.  I totally understand that there has to be some give and take but surely there must come a point where seeking to have the deposit returned is not unreasonable?  I paid the deposit via Paypal so I could turn to them but I shall not do anything until the new year anyway.  I was just interested to see what the views on this were.

Alderbank

Well, share with us what the T&Cs say about the deposit!

If it is a simple deposit as part of the purchase price then as a consumer you should be able to cancel the contract for a full refund.
But if you have in fact paid for a service to guarantee your place in the queue for a limited edition it might not be so straightforward, although in that case you may be able to sell or even auction your reservation. 

Uplander1111

Thanks for responding.  Herewith:

Overview

A pre-order is a term used for placing an order for an item that has not yet been released or that is currently on back order with the manufacturer.

Payment

When placing a pre-order on our website, we will ask you to input your payment information. However you will not be charged for forthcoming releases until the products come into stock and is ready to be processed.

Deposits

In some instances we take a deposit for certain pre-orders. If a deposit is needed this will be taken at the time the order is placed. The balance will then only be charged once the products arrive in stock.

Deposits are non refundable.

TBA

Some products may not have a confirmed selling price. If this is the case then the price will show as TBA (To Be Announced) This means the manufacturer has not yet released a price. Pre-orders can be placed for items with a TBA price. Once the price is confirmed our system will notify you of the price and a that point you have the option to accept or cancel the confirmed price. If accepted the order will continue as planned. If you choose cancel the pre-order will be cancelled and no payment will occur.

Price Increase

Occasionally the manufacturer will increase the selling price of the product prior to its arrival. Should this happen, we would always try to honour the original price. In the event where this is not possible, you will be contacted to confirm if you wish to accept the new price or cancel the pre-order. If you accept the new price, the order will proceed at the new higher price and will be updated on your pre-order. If you choose not to accept the new price the order is cancelled.

Cancellation

You can cancel a pre-order at anytime up to the arrival of the product. This can be done by contacting us.

You will not be charged and you have the right to cancel at any time. If a deposit has been paid this is non refundable and will not be refunded unless under certain circumstances at the company’s discretion.

Alderbank

It is very badly worded.
As it stands I believe it is an unfair contract term in a consumer contract and can be struck out.

I think the situation is that they have to enter into a binding B2B contract with the creator to buy some products. They are worried that they could be left with a product that no-one wants if you cancel.
They should have explained before you paid the deposit that it was a charge to help cover their costs if you decided to cancel, and if they were able to sell the model at full price they would refund your money.