Supermarket Refund Policies

43722

jon81uk said:

43722 said:

Yes, I am not suggesting that this was anything other than a mistake. But I was wondering, now that transactions are cashless, whether more could be done, via technology, to refund overpayments when the store has erred. I am not sure that you would need to contact each customer to do this. I know they debit £99 when I fill  up the fuel, but adjust the amount afterwards,  and they have made adjustments to online shopping bills too.

I always check my receipts, and inaccurate charging happens a lot.  I was also overcharged at a garden centre this week, and had to get a refund. 

But the automated system wouldn't know that someone forgot to change a poster in the frame outside the store. If the offer is meant to be running, 99% of the time it is running and the price at the till is correct. Where things more often go wrong is the human changing the signage on time.

The details of how the offer went wrong are not important. The issue is whether stores might be able to do more to make sure that customers do not lose out because of staff errors. Would it be possible to instigate a computer check for instance to find out if just one customer or 200 had been overcharged? Also, (and I think this probably does happen) do store managers ever walk around their stores to spot check a range of prices?

RefluentBeans

43722 said:

jon81uk said:

43722 said:

Yes, I am not suggesting that this was anything other than a mistake. But I was wondering, now that transactions are cashless, whether more could be done, via technology, to refund overpayments when the store has erred. I am not sure that you would need to contact each customer to do this. I know they debit £99 when I fill  up the fuel, but adjust the amount afterwards,  and they have made adjustments to online shopping bills too.

I always check my receipts, and inaccurate charging happens a lot.  I was also overcharged at a garden centre this week, and had to get a refund. 

But the automated system wouldn't know that someone forgot to change a poster in the frame outside the store. If the offer is meant to be running, 99% of the time it is running and the price at the till is correct. Where things more often go wrong is the human changing the signage on time.

The details of how the offer went wrong are not important. The issue is whether stores might be able to do more to make sure that customers do not lose out because of staff errors. Would it be possible to instigate a computer check for instance to find out if just one customer or 200 had been overcharged? Also, (and I think this probably does happen) do store managers ever walk around their stores to spot check a range of prices?

I think what jon81uk is saying is that the company either knows the prices and posters are wrong and leave it up to trick customers (which is illegal), and so they'll know when they put the fake prices up and who's bought them at the wrong prices; but if this is the case, the retailer wouldn't refund anyone, let alone automatically.

Or the price error is unknown until someone points it out (whether thats a customer or member of staff). Most retailers will have a stock control system, and most will integrate it into a customer database to track purchases for data and marketing. They probably could look at the end of the promotion date and the point it was pointed out and see what customers purchased it. There's loads of issues with that (GDPR being the main one - having all employees being able to access all customers is just wrong); but then what next? Stores don't, and shouldn't, have access to payment information. Even the backend of payment processing vendors can contain information that is sensitive. 

The idea is impractical, and arguably not legal for the reasons I've said above in other posts. 

Customers can literally check their receipts - you haven't said why thats wrong and what the issue is with expecting customers to check their receipt and asking for a refund if they've been overcharged! 

Expecting retailers to put in an expensive system because customers can't be bothered to check receipts is frankly ridiculous.  

43722

Ok. Just for clarity. I always take my receipt, and often stay in store to check it for accuracy. I also keep my receipts, to make life easier if i need to return or reject goods.  But i am fortunate, i have the time to do this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking receipts. I suggested though that it is unrealistic to expect busy and distracted people to check their receipts all the time. I also think that stores cannot seek to abnegate their own responsibility for their own mistakes. I would argue that arriving at an accurate receipt is the responsibility of the store. Checking a receipt is the responsibility of the customer.

Secondly, in respect of checking prices after an error has been discovered. If a check was to me made on the data alone (i.e.  the number of erroneous, and the total value of the overpayments), would this necessarily lead to a GDPR issue? Could this not be done without identifying individuals? 

Still struggling to see how a store justifies keeping transaction monies which have been gained by their own errors. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

Expecting retailers to put in an expensive system because customers can't be bothered to check receipts is frankly ridiculous.  

Expecting customers to check their receipt because a trader can't put the right price on the shelf is ridiculous.  

Don't recall ever seeing it in the UK but have been in supermarkets in Europe where they have prices displayed digitally, with the tech we have today they could be updated automatically, as for the expense, it must be expensive to print millions of tickets each year and pay staff to swap them about....  

RefluentBeans said:

I think what jon81uk is saying is that the company either knows the prices and posters are wrong and leave it up to trick customers (which is illegal), and so they'll know when they put the fake prices up and who's bought them at the wrong prices; but if this is the case, the retailer wouldn't refund anyone, let alone automatically.

A cynic might suggest poor pricing encourages people to use self checkout or self scan reducing resistance to the reduction of staff on tills. 

Grumpy_chap

Sometimes mistakes just happen.
At my local bus stop today, the following poster remains on display:
It has been out of date for some time.
ULEZ expanded today to all of London.
I don't expect that TFL would even refund the charge if this was used as a defence for not paying.

At least the supermarket corrected the error and removed the offending poster / shelf-edge label.

RefluentBeans

43722 said:

Secondly, in respect of checking prices after an error has been discovered. If a check was to me made on the data alone (i.e.  the number of erroneous, and the total value of the overpayments), would this necessarily lead to a GDPR issue? Could this not be done without identifying individuals? 

And what would they do with this data? I agree you can confirm that you have sold x number of units between date 1 and date 2 - and what next? How would you possibly refund without knowing which customers have to be refunded? It's this step that's the issue. 

Still struggling to see how a store justifies keeping transaction monies which have been gained by their own errors. 

They don't if you ask for your money back! But there is no good solution to this, and the automatic solution is fraught with legal complications. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

RefluentBeans said:

Expecting retailers to put in an expensive system because customers can't be bothered to check receipts is frankly ridiculous.  

Expecting customers to check their receipt because a trader can't put the right price on the shelf is ridiculous.  

Mistakes happen. Consumers cannot force the retailer to sell for incorrect price. It's that simple -  that is not a right consumers have. A lot of retailers do though, as a gesture of goodwill, and will refund the difference. 

A cynic might suggest poor pricing encourages people to use self checkout or self scan reducing resistance to the reduction of staff on tills. 

Is there something wrong with self-checkouts? Frees up more staff to do these price checks you want the companies to do! Win, win!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grumpy_chap said:

Sometimes mistakes just happen.
At my local bus stop today, the following poster remains on display:
It has been out of date for some time.
ULEZ expanded today to all of London.
I don't expect that TFL would even refund the charge if this was used as a defence for not paying.

At least the supermarket corrected the error and removed the offending poster / shelf-edge label.

Interesting BBC article the other day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66623252

TfL has stated that London's deputy mayor for transport, Seb Dance, criticised the decision of the councils [for not erecting signage], asserting that they were "letting down residents".

Dance has argued that if drivers were fined due to a lack of warning about the Ulez, councils should bear the responsibility.

I wonder if a refusal bear responsibility for the out of date poster would be hypocritical given their statement in the article?  

user1977

43722 said:

jon81uk said:

43722 said:

Yes, I am not suggesting that this was anything other than a mistake. But I was wondering, now that transactions are cashless, whether more could be done, via technology, to refund overpayments when the store has erred. I am not sure that you would need to contact each customer to do this. I know they debit £99 when I fill  up the fuel, but adjust the amount afterwards,  and they have made adjustments to online shopping bills too.

I always check my receipts, and inaccurate charging happens a lot.  I was also overcharged at a garden centre this week, and had to get a refund. 

But the automated system wouldn't know that someone forgot to change a poster in the frame outside the store. If the offer is meant to be running, 99% of the time it is running and the price at the till is correct. Where things more often go wrong is the human changing the signage on time.

Would it be possible to instigate a computer check for instance to find out if just one customer or 200 had been overcharged? 

Yes, probably. How much do you think it would cost to set up and administer such a system? Do you think it's likely to be worthwhile given it may well only be handing back pennies at a time? Would you be happy to pay higher prices to cover the costs? Would you be happy if the system also collected the additional payments due by customers who had been undercharged?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

Mistakes happen. Consumers cannot force the retailer to sell for incorrect price. It's that simple -  that is not a right consumers have. A lot of retailers do though, as a gesture of goodwill, and will refund the difference. 

Indeed but the question isn't doesn't have a retailer have sell at the price on the shelf (because they don't have to, that's a given ), it's have they mislead the customer in any way. 

RefluentBeans said:

Is there something wrong with self-checkouts? 

Depends what you want really, removing the human element from our day to day lives isn't always a positive step for society IMHO and of course it's only done in this instance (self checkouts) for profit.

RefluentBeans said:
Frees up more staff to do these price checks you want the companies to do! Win, win!

Well with all that free staff suddenly knocking about they've no excuse not to be checking those shelf tickets are correct  

RefluentBeans

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

RefluentBeans said:

Mistakes happen. Consumers cannot force the retailer to sell for incorrect price. It's that simple -  that is not a right consumers have. A lot of retailers do though, as a gesture of goodwill, and will refund the difference. 

Indeed but the question isn't doesn't have a retailer have sell at the price on the shelf (because they don't have to, that's a given ), it's have they mislead the customer in any way. 

RefluentBeans said:

Is there something wrong with self-checkouts? 

Depends what you want really, removing the human element from our day to day lives isn't always a positive step for society IMHO and of course it's only done in this instance (self checkouts) for profit.

RefluentBeans said:
Frees up more staff to do these price checks you want the companies to do! Win, win!

Well with all that free staff suddenly knocking about they've no excuse not to be checking those shelf tickets are correct  

The only people who can say if a retailer has misled customers is a court. I doubt you’re going to get anywhere for £1.45. But given the law doesn’t compel a retailer to sell for the price (almost like the law allows for genuine mistakes, shock, I know - not all retailers are evil!), the argument is moot.

The original question was why can’t retailers automatically refund. Feels we’ve gone way off topic, and arguing rather academic points. The system doesn’t exist, and likely can’t exist without major changes in operation and investment by the companies, for what is equivalent to pennies. Feel the points have been made above by myself and others.