no saving for me

MattMattMattUK

wrf12345 said:

All you have to do is increase the unit cost by roughly ten percent and get rid of the standing charges, the revenue remains the same and only those using above average will pay more, it is not rocket science and would make a massive difference to people on prepayment meters whose money is continually gobbled up by the s/c's even when minimising their usage. Both Ofgem and the energy companies are trying to coerce the govn into digging into tax payer's money rather than reforming the system to a much fairer outcome. This is actually a huge political issue, if one of the new political parties comes along and says it will abolish standing charges and council tax (another fixed cost you can't avoid unless on a low income and willing to beg the local council office) - at no cost to tax payers as councils are at about 10-20 percent efficiency - then it could actually win an election, IMO. so annoyed and tired are people at being ripped off by incompetent and greedy ^^^^^^^^^'s...

In addition to Dolor's correction of your completly wrong maths on the standing charge, If council tax was abolished then to make that revenue neutral the government would need to add 6% to each income tax band, or raise VAT to 25%, ignoring behavioural changes. If a political party proposed a anything close to that it would be political suicide. Additionally , your idea that councils are only "10-20 percent efficient" demonstrates staggering economic and fiscal illiteracy. 

QrizB

Dolor said:

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

You're not wrong.

In round numbers, the standing charge is 20% of the typical electricity bill (~£200 SC, ~£800 consumption, total ~£1000). To make up the difference, the £800 consumption charge would need to increase by (2/8) ie. ~25%.

matt_drummer

That is the level of unit price increase I came up with as a suggested starting point in another thread, somewhere between 6p and 7p a unit.

It would be devastating for many of the poorest people in this country.

Adding standing charges to unit costs is a non starter, a terrible idea.

ArbitraryRandom

Largs said:

Dolor said:

At least one CEO (Utilita) has accepted that social tariffs are not the answer and support cannot just be focussed on those on benefits. He believes that there should be energy support allowances paid to 10s of millions from taxation. As this would involve some form of means testing, I cannot see it gaining much traction within Government.

What this means is give money to pensioners because I am a pensioner.  Utilia here is mud normally, but because it suits my agenda, don't just give to benefit claimants, but give it to pensioners, because I am a pensioner.

Ive yet to meet a poor pensioner.  Glad there is no traction within Governemnt on this.

I'm not a pensioner nor on a low income, and what I'm suggesting would probably end up costing me more... so what's your argument for dismissing my opinion (other than you don't agree with it)? 

ArbitraryRandom

matt_drummer said:

That is the level of unit price increase I came up with as a suggested starting point in another thread, somewhere between 6p and 7p a unit.

It would be devastating for many of the poorest people in this country.

Adding standing charges to unit costs is a non starter, a terrible idea.

Added to which, if the rational is to somehow help those on low income, it's should be remembered that those on pre-payment meters are often also those in all electric flats - meaning they tend to be above 'average' energy users and would likely end up paying more annually than they do with the existing arrangements. 

Largs

Scot_39 said:

Largs said:

Ive yet to meet a poor pensioner.  Glad there is no traction within Governemnt on this.

Then open your eyes.

Last official stats c2019 over 3m pensioners had total earnings below the pension credit and savings below the qualifying threshold too, so would qualify.

And only  just over 60% were claiming it - more than a million weren't.

3m in 12m = 25% of over 65s (12m from 20/21).

The last HMRC breakdown I read showed only c5M pensioners - those over 65 - were paying income tax - that's 7m earning below the £12570.  Some of the 5m still working as too poor to retire, rent to pay etc.

That incone of course includes the taxable state pension.

7m in 12m = 58%.

Compare that with min wage - now over £20k pa.


Not every pensioner is poor, but the majority are not rich. 

Just as uk ave worker earns c30K - and not every worker earns 60k like a train driver, 84k like an mp or 100,000s like a film star or premier league footballer.

No sorry, I don't need my eyes opened.  I've worked in Social Security Offices all my days and the International Pension Centre when The Pension Service was formed.  I am sticking by what I experienced and I will continue to say I have yet to meet a poor pensioner.  The only people that seem to have a problem with this viewpoint seems to be pensioners themselves.

I don't want to have a ding dong about it as I am on energy area so I will leave it at that.

Bye for now.

Mstty

matt_drummer said:

That is the level of unit price increase I came up with as a suggested starting point in another thread, somewhere between 6p and 7p a unit.

It would be devastating for many of the poorest people in this country.

Adding standing charges to unit costs is a non starter, a terrible idea.

That said not have a standing charge of nearly £1 a day (soon) would allow those low end user to have a few kWh of power each day even with the increased rates.

I am talking the very poorest in society and that hopefully the numbers are very low.

As much as I don't read to much into main stream media there were indications foodbanks were not accepting donations of products that needed to go in the oven as that cost too much to run for their customers.

To be clear I don't mind the standing charge, I understand why it is there and have benefitted from it from.the SOLR process.

The benefits system is the obvious place this should be taken care of and means tested and the SC left in place imo.

Spoonie_Turtle

Mstty said:

matt_drummer said:

That is the level of unit price increase I came up with as a suggested starting point in another thread, somewhere between 6p and 7p a unit.

It would be devastating for many of the poorest people in this country.

Adding standing charges to unit costs is a non starter, a terrible idea.

As much as I don't read to much into main stream media there were indications foodbanks were not accepting donations of products that needed to go in the oven as that cost too much to run for their customers.

That has actually been the case for years already, plus there's the consideration that not everyone even has a working oven or other cooking facilities - although it's only recently that food banks considered not accepting food that needed cooking, as far as I know.  (I don't know if they followed through on it or not, or just encouraged donations that didn't need cooking.)