Appeal rejected for private parking fine - what next?

B789

Ange1402 said:

Is there any chance they would send baliffs before sending a letter of claim? 

Why do you imagine anyone could just "send bailiffs" on a whim? The only way you can get a bailiff knocking at your door is if they get an enforcement order from the court and it has to be for an amount more that £500. Have you been to court and lost a claim and received a CCJ?

The debt collector letters are a tool used by these scammers to get victims who have no idea about civil law and their rights to poop their pants and pay up. The debt collectors have no power to do anything whatsoever except send you nasty letters in order to try and scare you. They are looking for low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree.

Which bit about "ignore all £170 debt demands" as advised by @Coupon-mad is not clear?

Ange1402

Hi, I was after some more advice on my fine please. I’ve now received a letter before claim from VCS’ ‘litigation dept’. I’m not going to pay the fine ( long story short it’s a car I lease and I wasn’t driving and never admitted to driving. My partner was driving and stopped in a no stopping zone at EMA hence the fine) but not sure whether I should complete the reply form they sent me saying as much or whether I should ignore it? I am prepared to go to court but don’t want me ignoring the reply form to affect my chances in court. 

Thanks 

Ange1402

To add: following advice on this forum, I have already appealed, and lost at IAS. 

KeithP

You now need to be following the guidance in the second post of the NEWBIES thread.
The first few paragraphs there explain exactly how to react upon receipt of a Letter of Claim.

In that post it clearly states...

...but it does go on to say how you should 'reply robustly'.

Ange1402

I tried to screenshot the newbies thread I think I’m supposed to follow but it didn’t work… it’s the one that says ignore the forms but email them? 

The letter they sent said they don’t accept email and that I need to use the forms. One of the forms gives me the option of saying I refuse to pay and a space for defence, as well as a finance form (which I will definitely ignore!) Should I try email instead of the form anyway? Sorry for all the questions! Want to make sure I’m not jeopardising my chances of winning if I do end up in court.  

Coupon-mad

The second post of the Newbies thread shows a link to a version of a robust LBC reply in a case where there is no keeper liability and the person wasn't driving.

Use that and email it to VCS' COMPLAINTS EMAIL.  Use the linked example mentioned above as your base and add words to complain to VCS that:

1. they know you weren't driving and this has been more than sufficiently evidenced;

2. the IAS appeal was a farce and will be shown to your MP to escalate the matter;

3. there is no keeper liability, so if VCS are pretending that they can "pursue a keeper on the assumption they were the driver", this is wholly unreasonable and misleading conduct, given the fact that VCS and their stable-mate Excel have both lost persuasive higher appeal cases on that exact point:

Excel v Smith (judgment by HHJ Smith)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfx25wgm3nlqkyc/Claim%20No.%20C0DP9C4E%3AM17X062.pdf?dl=0

VCS v Ian Edward (this Summer by HHJ Gargan:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w0k19zxzlpf9eumu68u7b/VCS-v-EDWARDS-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=5t2gilebrjx7g0d6jmy32lou4&dl=0

4.  Further and in the alternative, it is in the public domain that VCS did not hold any written authority of the landowner in June 2023.  This means that, at the material time, they obtained the DVLA keeper data without reasonable cause.

(end this complaint with a Counterclaim threat as seen in the Newbies thread). 

THEN once sent to their complaints email address, do the other DVLA and journalist emails I will pm you about.

Ange1402

Wow, thanks so much for your detailed reply and  messages. I will do all this and let you know how I get on. 

Ange1402

I’ve followed the steps above ( haven’t written to MP yet) had a reply back from the DVLA about the lapse in written authority and the fact that VCS obtained my details during this lapse however, DVLA aren’t interested. 

They wrote a really detailed reply which I won’t paste here but basically it said that that they have investigated the matter and even though it had lapsed, the airport still wanted them to do their job and that the signage was still up so they have the authority and reasonable cause to get details from the DVLA so there is no data breach. 

Then the DVLA mentioned I could complain to the IPC if I believed VCS weren’t complying with their code of practice. I have already been through the joke that is the IAS ‘appeal’ system and didn’t get anywhere. DVLA also said I could lodge a complaint about their decision. 

Is this another dead end? 

I’m fully expecting VCS to issue me with court paperwork very soon! Is there anything I can do before then or shall I just wait it out? 

Coupon-mad

DVLA 'business as usual, get lost you oik' reply sent also to another poster:

"Dear Yet another PPC victim,

Thank you for your email of xxth December about the release of information from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency’s (DVLA) vehicle register.

The DVLA takes the protection and security of its data very seriously and has procedures in place to ensure data is disclosed only where it is lawful and fair to do so and where the provisions of the Data Protection Law are met. The Agency must strike a balance between ensuring the privacy of motorists is respected while enabling those who may have suffered loss or damage to seek redress.

Drivers choosing to park a vehicle on private land do so subject to the terms and conditions set out on signage in the car park. The need to contact individuals who may not have complied with these conditions is, in most circumstances, considered to be a reasonable cause. Data is provided by the DVLA to enable landowners or their agents to pursue their legal rights and to address disputes. I hope you can appreciate that if this were not the case, motorists would be able to park with disregard for the conditions applying with little prospect of being held accountable.

This matter has been investigated and I can confirm that although there was an oversight in renewing the contract the landowner has confirmed that they still wanted Vehicle Control Services Ltd to operate and enforce the scheme on their land and as the signage was still in place it did not negate the reasonable cause for requesting the data.

Reasonable cause is not defined in legislation but the Government’s policy is that it should relate to the vehicle or its use, following incidents where there may be liability on the part of the driver. Guidance on what constitutes reasonable cause is published online at www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

 To help ensure motorists are treated fairly when any private parking charge is pursued the DVLA discloses vehicle keeper information only to companies that are members of an appropriate Accredited Trade Association (ATA). The purpose of requiring a company to be a member of an ATA is to ensure that those who request DVLA information are legitimate companies that operate within a code of practice that promotes fair treatment of the motorist and ensures that there is a clear set of standards for operators. 

The company in question, Vehicle Control Services Ltd, is a member of the International Parking Community Ltd (IPC) which is an Accredited Trade Association for the parking industry. The IPC’s code of practice is published on its website at www.theipc.infounder the heading Accredited Operators Scheme. If a member of this AOS does not comply with the code of practice, it may be suspended or expelled, during which time no data will be provided to it by the DVLA. If you feel that any of the practices used by the company do not comply with the IPC’s code of practice, you may wish to contact the IPC via their website or by writing to IPC, at PO Box 662 SK10 9NR.

I trust I have explained matters but, if you remain unhappy with the service you have received, you can write to our Complaints Team and I have provided a link to our complaints procedure for your reference:"

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

I’m fully expecting VCS to issue me with court paperwork very soon! Is there anything I can do before then or shall I just wait it out? 

My last reply told you what to send VCS.

I hear another damning newspaper article is being prepared about VCS.  Any day now.

Ange1402

Copy and paste job, wow. My letter is EXACTLY the same. 

I wrote to VCS a while ago but no reply as of yet.

Looking forward to that article, they’re an absolute joke.