Squint Tiles

DetailDave

Hi there, I’m hoping to gain some advice about a squint tiling job in our hall. To caveat this, the builders who did the tiles also did a lot of other work in our house all of which is really good. And the tiles are also really good, very flat - next to no lippage, beautifully spaced - they look stunning.

The problem is that the whole area is squint. Not just one wall as we initially thought, but on measuring, every wall is squint to about 1cm every 130cm - to the same tilt. In short, if I were able to move the whole floor, a couple of degrees to the left, everything would lineup perfectly. We opted for patterned tails with a border, so it is quite obvious.

I have informed the builder and I’m waiting for him to come round, possibly tomorrow morning, to look at it for himself. on the phone, he was adamant that the tiler must have squared up to something, and I got the impression that he was passing this off to me as he suggested that we must have agreed something with his tiler. However, there is no wall that the tiles are in line with. They are all off the same tilt.

The tiler who did the job is a very detailed orientated person who takes a lot of pride in his work, we really like him, so I’m not entirely sure how this has happened. As it isn’t a massive amount, I didn’t notice it until the skirtings were on, and now that I’ve seen it, it’s all I see. The longest wall in the hall it is out by 3cm - am I being too picky? 

I don’t want to fall out with these builders as they have done such a good job elsewhere, and as I say, even the tiles are beautifully laid, just squint. It’s pretty heartbreaking as it’s taken such a long time to get to this place.

So what to do when he arrives?

Do I ask for them to re-lay the tiles? - a massive upheaval and expense, and I’m not sure we could recover our relationship with that.

Do I ask for a big discount to put up with them as is?

How do I do this without falling out with them?

We have never had much luck with builders and these guys really do seem good so I am unsure how to proceed. Any advice is very welcome.

stuart45

Have you got some photos?

DetailDave

I do, but wasn’t sure I wanted to put them here in case the builder saw them. The other thing I’ve noticed while cleaning the floor today (1st A I’ve given it a proper mop since installation) is there are 9 tiles with (very small) chips in them. I could probably paint them to match (they are hardly noticeable), but one is a corner of the tile that’s been grouted in. Also in a few places there’s some holes in the grout - maybe half a dozen - is this also a concern?

stuart45

Without photos it's difficult for anyone to comment.

pramsay13

It's difficult for others to give their opinion without photos, and even then it might be impossible.
If you go over everything with a fine-tooth comb you will undoubtedly find flaws, the question is are they noticeable with normal use, and can you live with them?
Lifting them all and laying again is a nightmare, so will need to be a last resort, but if it's really bad that might be the only option.

Section62

DetailDave said:

...

I have informed the builder and I’m waiting for him to come round, possibly tomorrow morning, to look at it for himself. on the phone, he was adamant that the tiler must have squared up to something, and I got the impression that he was passing this off to me as he suggested that we must have agreed something with his tiler. However, there is no wall that the tiles are in line with. They are all off the same tilt.

The tiler who did the job is a very detailed orientated person who takes a lot of pride in his work, we really like him, so I’m not entirely sure how this has happened. As it isn’t a massive amount, I didn’t notice it until the skirtings were on, and now that I’ve seen it, it’s all I see. The longest wall in the hall it is out by 3cm - am I being too picky? 

I don’t want to fall out with these builders as they have done such a good job elsewhere, and as I say, even the tiles are beautifully laid, just squint. It’s pretty heartbreaking as it’s taken such a long time to get to this place.

See here for a previous (lengthy) discussion about tiles being lined up to things...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6286017/tiling-job-tiles-not-straight/p1

Rather than assuming the tiler has made a mistake (unlikely, given your description) what you need to find out is why the tiler laid the tiles as he has.

The builder is very likely correct - the tiler has used their professional judgement to align the tiles in a way which they believe to be the best option - its just that you don't (yet) know the logic used and it isn't the way you think it should be done.

That was the crux of the thread linked to above.  Unless you specified you wanted the tiles aligned to something in particular you were leaving it to the tiler to use their judgement.  As such the tiling is not necessarily 'wrong' and you can't expect the builder/tiler to redo the job at their expense.  That thread meandered around the different way tiles could be laid, the eventual conclusion (or maybe just when everyone got tired discussing) was that the kitchen tiles were probably aligned with the flooring in the hall, such that when viewed from the hallway the lines were 'straight' and followed through. Some of us would consider that to have been the most important thing.

Ask the tiler (in a non-confrontational way) why they aligned them as they have.

DetailDave

@Section62 thanks, yes I’ve had a read through that thread. I’m going to be as non-confrontational as possible, as I say, in every other respect things have been great. I’m thinking I could probably live with the squintness once furniture is in, and wallpaper etc will take my eye away from it. But I think it needs to be highlighted nonetheless.

The tiles being chipped is bothering me more atm because we had so many spare and could easily have been switched when noticed. And I don’t know how they weren’t noticed as he seemed so detail orientated.

pramsay13

The chipped tiles aren't a bit deal. Chances are they were fine when laid and something has caught them since then.
They can be filled in or even replaced reasonably easily. 
The lines would bother me more although it depends what is happening. We have just had a new window put in to a very old wall, and above the window at the left hand side there is around 600mm of wall versus around 500mm of wall so a massive difference but there wasn't another option. Over time you forget it's there.
I would suggest getting them round and listening to the explanation and then feed back. 

DetailDave

pramsay13 said:

The chipped tiles aren't a bit deal. Chances are they were fine when laid and something has caught them since then.
They can be filled in or even replaced reasonably easily. 
The lines would bother me more although it depends what is happening. We have just had a new window put in to a very old wall, and above the window at the left hand side there is around 600mm of wall versus around 500mm of wall so a massive difference but there wasn't another option. Over time you forget it's there.
I would suggest getting them round and listening to the explanation and then feed back. 

Thanks. Some of the chips will be under the door mat, but I’m concerned about water making them worse over time. I’d already asked for one to be replaced when I noticed a flaw (before it was completely finished/ grouted). So I’d have hoped even more attention to detail would have been paid. The tiler told me how there would be no way they’d chip once laid (I still think a dropped mug or something would do it, but we’ve had nothing on them since they were laid), as it’s solid underneath. Is it really that unacceptable for me to ask for a newly filled hall to be unchipped and lined up straight. Maybe it is.

stuart45

Are the hall walls out of parallel or out of square? It could be he has split the difference, instead of following  one wall and leaving the other further out.

DetailDave

When I measure, every 130cm or so, it’s 1cm out - all the way round and on the same tilt. So I think that means no (I mean I would imagine the walls aren’t completely square, but it seems they may well be - or as close as). Either way, I wasn’t asked which wall to align to, and I was there to ask.