How can providers offer such cheap EV overnight charge rates? Are others paying more?

bignose2

Hi,
Bit of a moan rather than a question but when the utility companies have to charge so much and no way can reduce prices, users having to rely on the price caps etc. they can manage to charge less than half price for overnight (economy 7 type rates) than the average punter.
They can use this cheap rate for everything else as far as I can see, dishwasher, washing machine etc. etc.
This implies to me that they must be charging more for everyone else.
I know perhaps a small percentage of overall users but still not sure why I should subsidize someone with an EV?
I know they want to encourage overnight use but why is my normal Econ7 double those cheap EV rates? Even if somehow a government subsidy even worse as all tax payers have to pay.
To be fair not sure if these contracts have power to pull power from the cars if needed or some other con but think unlikely

Scot_39

Because most EV home charging is done not only at off peak rates, but off peak rates in summer - when demand lower and average prices cheaper - and winter.

In fact encouraging ev use at such times helps reduce -ve rates on tariffs like agile and curtailment charges to generators.

And high summer off peak demand is a major distinction from say e7 for nsh use - when maybe 100,000s if not millions still on e7 use 10s kWh nightly for heating.

CSI_Yorkshire

bignose2 said:

Hi,
Bit of a moan rather than a question but when the utility companies have to charge so much and no way can reduce prices, users having to rely on the price caps etc. they can manage to charge less than half price for overnight (economy 7 type rates) than the average punter.
They can use this cheap rate for everything else as far as I can see, dishwasher, washing machine etc. etc.
This implies to me that they must be charging more for everyone else.
I know perhaps a small percentage of overall users but still not sure why I should subsidize someone with an EV?
I know they want to encourage overnight use but why is my normal Econ7 double those cheap EV rates? Even if somehow a government subsidy even worse as all tax payers have to pay.
To be fair not sure if these contracts have power to pull power from the cars if needed or some other con but think unlikely

Why is your E7 different from the E7 rate at a different supplier?  Or in a different region?

The price cap is exactly that - a cap.

If a supplier wants to offer a tariff at either less profit or even a loss, they are free to.  If they offered to everyone, they would go bust, so they choose a group to offer it to - whether that's for PR, market segmentation, customer retention, or because their CEO likes the colour purple.

Asking why you "subsidise" them is like me asking why I "subsidise" someone who uses mostly off-peak E7 because that works out cheaper than at single rate.

dunstonh

Bit of a moan rather than a question but when the utility companies have to charge so much and no way can reduce prices, users having to rely on the price caps etc. they can manage to charge less than half price for overnight (economy 7 type rates) than the average punter.

Overnight electricity is much cheaper as the supply capability outstrips demand.

Off peak users can take advantage of that reduction in pricing for off peak but they also pay a higher rate for peak use.  

They can use this cheap rate for everything else as far as I can see, dishwasher, washing machine etc. etc.

Indeed, we can.   I am on economy 7 and we put as much through off peak as we can.    We are around 70% off peak and 30% peak.

This implies to me that they must be charging more for everyone else.

No.  Your assumption is wrong.    you just need to look at some of the real time tariffs to understand why energy is cheap off peak.   Indeed, sometimes the energy company pays the customer with those.     

If something isnt in demand, the price goes down.  If something is in demand, the price goes up.

I know perhaps a small percentage of overall users but still not sure why I should subsidize someone with an EV?

Actually, its more likely that off peak users are actually subsidising single rate users.  i.e. the more that use the surplus energy off peak means the less they use peak energy.  That reduced demand in peak hours helps those that use most of their energy during peak times.

I know they want to encourage overnight use but why is my normal Econ7 double those cheap EV rates? 

a) you haven't shopped around - our economy 7 off peak rate is 8p.
b) You may be in an area that doesn't have a lot of excess off peak generation.
c) you have chosen to have 7 hours off peak rather than the 4 or 5 that EV tariffs get.

Even if somehow a government subsidy even worse as all tax payers have to pay.

There is no subsidy.

Grizzlebeard

Actually you can regard the super-cheap tariffs the same way as the "Reduced to clear" labels in the supermarket. If they didn't sell it cheap they wouldn't sell it at all. Most electricity generation, thermal and nuclear, can't actually be switched on and off instantly. It takes time and a lot of planning (and cost) to ramp up or down individual (mainly gas) powered stations. Diesel is a bit quicker but not cheap and bad for all sorts of other reasons. Green energy comes and goes with the weather and batteries and storage is very very limited at the moment.

So actually selling it cheap at night is putting some money back in the till, and actually reducing the cost for everyone, a bit like "Reduced to clear" keeps money out of land fill or biodigesters.

But the really big savings come from taking use away from peak times and reducing the need to maintain expensive generators that must be kept ticking over 24-7 just to cover short bursts of peak demand.

powerful_Rogue

bignose2 said:

Hi,
Bit of a moan rather than a question but when the utility companies have to charge so much and no way can reduce prices, users having to rely on the price caps etc. they can manage to charge less than half price for overnight (economy 7 type rates) than the average punter.
They can use this cheap rate for everything else as far as I can see, dishwasher, washing machine etc. etc.
This implies to me that they must be charging more for everyone else.
I know perhaps a small percentage of overall users but still not sure why I should subsidize someone with an EV?
I know they want to encourage overnight use but why is my normal Econ7 double those cheap EV rates? Even if somehow a government subsidy even worse as all tax payers have to pay.
To be fair not sure if these contracts have power to pull power from the cars if needed or some other con but think unlikely

Wait till you read Octopus are giving away free energy to certain people!

https://octopus.energy/power-ups/

Spoonie_Turtle

powerful_Rogue said:

bignose2 said:

Hi,
Bit of a moan rather than a question but when the utility companies have to charge so much and no way can reduce prices, users having to rely on the price caps etc. they can manage to charge less than half price for overnight (economy 7 type rates) than the average punter.
They can use this cheap rate for everything else as far as I can see, dishwasher, washing machine etc. etc.
This implies to me that they must be charging more for everyone else.
I know perhaps a small percentage of overall users but still not sure why I should subsidize someone with an EV?
I know they want to encourage overnight use but why is my normal Econ7 double those cheap EV rates? Even if somehow a government subsidy even worse as all tax payers have to pay.
To be fair not sure if these contracts have power to pull power from the cars if needed or some other con but think unlikely

Wait till you read Octopus are giving away free energy to certain people!

https://octopus.energy/power-ups/

They even pay people to use energy sometimes