Can HR ask questions about my health ?

Suzycoll

Undervalued said:

Suzycoll said:

HI all 

Background without revealing personal info -

I have been off work for a while and had 3 x OH reports . All recommended the same 'reasonable adjustments. I went back to work to try one of the adjustments but it did not work out so I am now back sick with a GP fit note for one month. HR have booked another OH appt for next week (no idea why as they have already had 3?)

I have now received an e mail from HR and they are asking me specific questions about my sickness. My current sickness is workplace stress due to all the malarky, but the 'original' sickness (the one I need the adjustments for) is always present and has been classed as a disability.

In a nutshell my question is - are HR allowed to ask me very specific questions about my current (workplace stress) sickness? I'm not trying to hide anything I just think all the OH reports answer all the questions.

Hope this all makes sense ? Thanks in advance 

The short answer is yes. There are some questions it might be unwise of them to ask, as it might leave the company open to a claim, but there is no law preventing them from asking.

Are any of these recommended "reasonable adjustments" related specifically to your disability? If they are and providing they are indeed reasonable then the company is obliged to implement them. If however they relate to a non disability illness or injury, then they are not obliged to make any adjustments. They can in effect say "do your normal job or stay off sick until you can".

Whilst many good employers do far more in the way of adjustments than the law would require, that doesn't mean all do. Because if this many employees over estimate their entitlement in this respect.

Have we not discussed some related matters in previous threads?

yes undervalued something similar has been spoken about before and the saga is continuing. Yes the adjustments are relating to my disability but they are unable to action the reasonable adjustments, I have not been given a clear explanation why. I may have to go down the ACAS route

Suzycoll

RogerPensionGuy said:

The following link is one of many helpful publications freely found on the Internet, worth a read and suggest people make contemporaneous privately about the way bad employers treat them, silly employers can find themselves in all sorts of hassles when they don't behave in the correct fashion.
.
.
https://www.acas.org.uk/disability-discrimination

thanks Roger . I am looking at making a formal grievance and may well have to go down discrimination route sadly, although not something I want to do -  watch this space!

Undervalued

Suzycoll said:

Undervalued said:

Suzycoll said:

HI all 

Background without revealing personal info -

I have been off work for a while and had 3 x OH reports . All recommended the same 'reasonable adjustments. I went back to work to try one of the adjustments but it did not work out so I am now back sick with a GP fit note for one month. HR have booked another OH appt for next week (no idea why as they have already had 3?)

I have now received an e mail from HR and they are asking me specific questions about my sickness. My current sickness is workplace stress due to all the malarky, but the 'original' sickness (the one I need the adjustments for) is always present and has been classed as a disability.

In a nutshell my question is - are HR allowed to ask me very specific questions about my current (workplace stress) sickness? I'm not trying to hide anything I just think all the OH reports answer all the questions.

Hope this all makes sense ? Thanks in advance 

The short answer is yes. There are some questions it might be unwise of them to ask, as it might leave the company open to a claim, but there is no law preventing them from asking.

Are any of these recommended "reasonable adjustments" related specifically to your disability? If they are and providing they are indeed reasonable then the company is obliged to implement them. If however they relate to a non disability illness or injury, then they are not obliged to make any adjustments. They can in effect say "do your normal job or stay off sick until you can".

Whilst many good employers do far more in the way of adjustments than the law would require, that doesn't mean all do. Because if this many employees over estimate their entitlement in this respect.

Have we not discussed some related matters in previous threads?

yes undervalued something similar has been spoken about before and the saga is continuing. Yes the adjustments are relating to my disability but they are unable to action the reasonable adjustments, I have not been given a clear explanation why. I may have to go down the ACAS route

Have you had any professional / expert advice that the adjustments you are requesting are likely to be considered reasonable if it came to an employment tribunal?

Have the firm given any indication that they consider them unreasonable and, if so, why?

As I am sure I have said before, arguing about what is reasonable has kept lawyer in fees for generations! 

Also, to repeat, just because OH has suggested something doesn't automatically make it reasonable.

Marcon

Suzycoll said:

Undervalued said:

Suzycoll said:

HI all 

Background without revealing personal info -

I have been off work for a while and had 3 x OH reports . All recommended the same 'reasonable adjustments. I went back to work to try one of the adjustments but it did not work out so I am now back sick with a GP fit note for one month. HR have booked another OH appt for next week (no idea why as they have already had 3?)

I have now received an e mail from HR and they are asking me specific questions about my sickness. My current sickness is workplace stress due to all the malarky, but the 'original' sickness (the one I need the adjustments for) is always present and has been classed as a disability.

In a nutshell my question is - are HR allowed to ask me very specific questions about my current (workplace stress) sickness? I'm not trying to hide anything I just think all the OH reports answer all the questions.

Hope this all makes sense ? Thanks in advance 

The short answer is yes. There are some questions it might be unwise of them to ask, as it might leave the company open to a claim, but there is no law preventing them from asking.

Are any of these recommended "reasonable adjustments" related specifically to your disability? If they are and providing they are indeed reasonable then the company is obliged to implement them. If however they relate to a non disability illness or injury, then they are not obliged to make any adjustments. They can in effect say "do your normal job or stay off sick until you can".

Whilst many good employers do far more in the way of adjustments than the law would require, that doesn't mean all do. Because if this many employees over estimate their entitlement in this respect.

Have we not discussed some related matters in previous threads?

yes undervalued something similar has been spoken about before and the saga is continuing. Yes the adjustments are relating to my disability but they are unable to action the reasonable adjustments, I have not been given a clear explanation why. I may have to go down the ACAS route

Looking at your previous thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6431800/employer#latest
and the reference to possible sight damage, I think there might be some merit in giving HR the answers they are requesting - and at the same time pressing them for an explanation of why these adjustments can't be actioned. Unsurprisingly you are finding this whole thing extremely stressful (anyone would if there's a risk of damage to their sight), but I think you do need to engage as fully as you can, however annoying/frustrating, if you are to have any hope of a satisfactory resolution.

Jaybee_16

If your employer is open to considering reasonable adjustments, have they looked into Access to Work?

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/resources/access-work

Undervalued

Back on 29th April, in your previous thread I posted......

I don't think there is a great deal I can add to my earlier posts.

It all comes down to "reasonable adjustments". You consider these to be reasonable and the employer doesn't.

 If the situation is deadlocked then only an employment tribunal can decide. Even then, it cannot force the employer to make the adjustments but it can award you compensation if they refuse.

You need to seek legal advice. What are your union doing? They should be you first port of call as if they find you are seeking legal advice elsewhere they will most likely drop all support.

The above should be one quote, not four!


So what, if anything, has changed in the four months since then?

Also, to repeat a question I asked earlier today.....

Have you had any professional / expert advice that the adjustments you are requesting are likely to be considered reasonable if it came to an employment tribunal?

Have the firm given any indication that they consider them unreasonable and, if so, why?

And to add....

Are your union still involved and are the willing to back an employment tribunal if necessary?

Suzycoll

Undervalued said:

Back on 29th April, in your previous thread I posted......

I don't think there is a great deal I can add to my earlier posts.

It all comes down to "reasonable adjustments". You consider these to be reasonable and the employer doesn't.

 If the situation is deadlocked then only an employment tribunal can decide. Even then, it cannot force the employer to make the adjustments but it can award you compensation if they refuse.

You need to seek legal advice. What are your union doing? They should be you first port of call as if they find you are seeking legal advice elsewhere they will most likely drop all support.

The above should be one quote, not four!


So what, if anything, has changed in the four months since then?

Also, to repeat a question I asked earlier today.....

Have you had any professional / expert advice that the adjustments you are requesting are likely to be considered reasonable if it came to an employment tribunal?

Have the firm given any indication that they consider them unreasonable and, if so, why?

And to add....

Are your union still involved and are the willing to back an employment tribunal if necessary?

last  4 mths - I returned to work and the RA was unsuitable for me, I was told to go home by a manager as I was unwell. I then rang in sick again (stress), theoretically there is no suitable environment for me ? 

No the firm has given no indication why they consider the suggested RA unreasonable 
Yes I am in touch with my union rep. He advised (re the lights) ,as the lighting system would not be able to be adjusted just for me this would be deemed as 'reasonable'. There was also another RA suggested by OH  which was home working . My employer said I cannot do this in my particular role. I have advised them I would be happy to swop to another job role at the same grade. They made a few enquiries about this but nothing came of it (for info -  one third of my colleague's currently wfh/hybrid). I have not spoken to rep re employment tribunal as I am still in employment at the moment ?

TELLIT01

The bottom line is 'What actually is a reasonable adjustment'.  Whilst the person requesting the adjustments may not see any problems with implementing them, the employer may see many problems and apparently does in this instance.  I don't think it unreasonable for the employee to ask for explanations of why the adjustments aren't practical.  That doesn't automatically mean that the employer has then to get into a back and forth conversation regarding their answers.

Just an example.  OH may suggest placing the person in an individual office but if there isn't one it wouldn't be reasonable to expect a company to create a separate area.  I'm not linking this comment to anything which may or may not be in the suggested changes, it's purely intended to be an example.  In all situations there will come a point where adjustments may not be practical on financial, logistical or other grounds.  Just because OH comes up with a suggestion doesn't mean an employer must implement it.

Dakta

Not to sound like a broken record but ultimately the word here is going to be 'reasonable'. What is a reasonable adjustment, who else does it effect, is it reasonable to others, is it reasonable to the company, if things escalate further then what is a reasonable alternative outcome, is this something a company being reasonable would do etc.

There needs to be some flex here and given my gut concern here is you could, even if not imminently find yourself down the capability path, I'd advise offering some level of co-operation with them where possible. You say they've had all this information before, in that case apart from the hassle of doing it you can give it again without comprise to personal info as they already have had it.  Problem is if you start refusing here it's going to give the company a much easier time saying they've considered and even tried things but hit the end of the road, in practical and reasonable terms. 

Do have some sympathy because I recently had an OH referral and the company ultimately went the other way with some of the recommendations (suggested more 1-2-1's as there was no evident tracking of my condition within the company) but despite this they were ultimately halved in frequency (no reason given, but I presume because the manager is quite a busy person) 

Grumpy_chap

Reading this thread, it is not clear to me on what final outcome the OP desires.  The possibilities could be:

• Adjustments at the current employer that are reasonable and allow the OP to resume their role.
• Failure of the employer to accommodate the OP (whether the adjustment would be reasonable or not) resulting in the OP being out of work.
• The OP working at an entirely different employer.

Assuming that the ideal outcome is the first of these, then working in as flexible way as possible to secure the necessary reasonable adjustments is most likely to reach the target end point.
Some of the actions mentioned in this thread don't seem particularly well-geared to this outcome - for example once set off on the path towards tribunal it can be a difficult direction to turn back from.

If suitable reasonable adjustments cannot be in place, then the next outcome is going to be out of work.  That may or may not come with some financial compensation depending upon the details of the adjustments required and whether reasonable or unreasonable adjustments are necessary.
In this vein, the employer has worked with the OP over the past four months so that would potentially indicate to any tribunal that the employer has made reasonable efforts to accommodate the needs.

The last outcome would need any alternative job to be either totally different, so that the OP's needs are accommodated by default or the OP would need to negotiate reasonable adjustments with the potential new employer prior to commencement.  Negotiating with a new employer is likely more difficult than the current established employer.