Slipped Slate repair

paperclap

Hi all,

Annoyingly, we've got a slipped slate. "Luckily", it's only the third course up from the bottom... meaning I can reach it easily.

Given it's a brand new roof, I suspect the cause is... the slate has been laid, courses above have been laid, said slate got broken somehow... then unable to reach the nail holes, it's been siliconed in. Said silicone has heated up, cooled down, so on... and failed.

Anyway! My plan was to buy some Hall Hooks. £15 for a pack of 10, cheap enough. Much more discreet than big lead or copper tingles.

https://www.geniusroofsolutions.com/products/hallhook/

Can pick up a pack today. Luckily, last pack in stock. Wanting to do this job today!

I've got some leftover wire. Been left outside for the past couple of months. Can't see any rust... so must be galvanised! Or, is that top section rust? Don't know.

Would it be worth making my own out of this wire? Started this morning (see photo). It's easy enough to do... but don't want it failing / rusting later down the line obviously.

Thanks!

Section62

paperclap said:

Annoyingly, we've got a slipped slate. "Luckily", it's only the third course up from the bottom... meaning I can reach it easily.

Given it's a brand new roof, I suspect the cause is... the slate has been laid, courses above have been laid, said slate got broken somehow... then unable to reach the nail holes, it's been siliconed in. Said silicone has heated up, cooled down, so on... and failed.

How far up the slate has it broken?  If the break is too far up then just putting the broken piece back in isn't enough, there's a risk of a leak developing if the break is above (or close to) the top of the slate two courses lower.

Ideally (if not replacing the whole slate) you need a new slate cut a couple of inches longer than the broken piece and force this piece in so it goes under the in-situ broken slate.  Better still to use a slate ripper to remove the broken slate completely if you feel up to doing that.

paperclap

Sorry, perhaps my original post wasn't clear.

I don't think the slate itself is broken at all. I believe it's the silicone that has been used to fix it has failed, causing the slate to slip. It's still on the roof right now – just slipped down a few inches.

When the original slate was broken, I'm assuming a new slate was popped in (with silicone).

So a case of pulling out, using said hook, then reusing the same slate.

Section62

paperclap said:

When the original slate was broken, I'm assuming a new slate was popped in (with silicone).

Possible, but I wouldn't bank on someone using silcone to have done the rest of the job properly... silicone-type repairs are typically associated with sticking the broken piece back in place and hoping that the homeowner/buyer doesn't notice until it is too late to do anything about it.

Someone who knows about removing the broken piece and replacing the whole slate would almost certainly know that a mechanical fixing is essential for a lasting repair.

casper_gutman

The Hall Hook is protected by patent GB2473637, which is still in force. Intellectual Property Office - Patent document and information service (Ipsum) (ipo.gov.uk)

Although it may be unlikely that the manufacturers would be interested in coming after someone making a single hook for their personal use, it's worth being aware that making your own is technically not allowed. Possibly, you may want to consider what you post on an open forum! 

paperclap

Section62 said:

paperclap said:

When the original slate was broken, I'm assuming a new slate was popped in (with silicone).

Possible, but I wouldn't bank on someone using silcone to have done the rest of the job properly... silicone-type repairs are typically associated with sticking the broken piece back in place and hoping that the homeowner/buyer doesn't notice until it is too late to do anything about it.

Someone who knows about removing the broken piece and replacing the whole slate would almost certainly know that a mechanical fixing is essential for a lasting repair.

I know exactly where you're coming from.

As far as I'm aware, he's done everything else correctly. Counter battened, copper nails, headlap is good, etc.

His reasoning for not using a tingle in the first place was that it was unnecessary (on a "new roof"), and guess didn't wan't the typical tingle being visible (copper or lead tingle, for example). He'd not heard of Hall Hooks, which are much more discreet.

I suppose he thought the silicone would last longer than it did! It's sort of by the by really, and we're moving away from the original post.

travis-powers

There is a bit of an art to fixing a loose slate, the top of the slate needs to sit on a batten it may go straight in if not this is where a slate rip comes in or an old saw placed on the batten and use as a guide for the slate.

paperclap

travis-powers said:

There is a bit of an art to fixing a loose slate, the top of the slate needs to sit on a batten it may go straight in if not this is where a slate rip comes in or an old saw placed on the batten and use as a guide for the slate.

Thanks! Don't have a slate ripper, so yes, had planned on using a saw 

Jumblebumble

casper_gutman said:

The Hall Hook is protected by patent GB2473637, which is still in force. Intellectual Property Office - Patent document and information service (Ipsum) (ipo.gov.uk)

Although it may be unlikely that the manufacturers would be interested in coming after someone making a single hook for their personal use, it's worth being aware that making your own is technically not allowed. Possibly, you may want to consider what you post on an open forum! 

How much damages do you think the manufacturers would be entitled to because the OP did not pay them £1.50?

FreeBear

casper_gutman said:

The Hall Hook is protected by patent GB2473637, which is still in force. Intellectual Property Office - Patent document and information service (Ipsum) (ipo.gov.uk)

Although it may be unlikely that the manufacturers would be interested in coming after someone making a single hook for their personal use, it's worth being aware that making your own is technically not allowed. Possibly, you may want to consider what you post on an open forum! 

Whilst in America, this is probably true (way to litigious for my taste over there), I do believe that there are private non-commercial exemptions in the law over here. Indeed, private non-commercial use is permitted under section 60 of the Patents Act.

CSI_Yorkshire

FreeBear said:

casper_gutman said:

The Hall Hook is protected by patent GB2473637, which is still in force. Intellectual Property Office - Patent document and information service (Ipsum) (ipo.gov.uk)

Although it may be unlikely that the manufacturers would be interested in coming after someone making a single hook for their personal use, it's worth being aware that making your own is technically not allowed. Possibly, you may want to consider what you post on an open forum! 

Whilst in America, this is probably true (way to litigious for my taste over there), I do believe that there are private non-commercial exemptions in the law over here. Indeed, private non-commercial use is permitted under section 60 of the Patents Act.

And there are guidance documents saying that 'accidental' infringement (like not knowing the thing might be patented) should not be penalised.