Remove entire chimney on party wall

okhajut

So I live in a semi-detatched house. There is a chimney right in the center of the building on the party wall. Half the chimey is on my side and the other half is on the neighbour's side. Upper portion of this chimney is in bedroom. Lower portion is in the kitchen.

Please note that there is no loft as such through which the chimney passes. This chimney is on the back portion of the house, in the room that is next to the back garden of the house.

I want to remove this chimney (breast) before I do kitchen renovation. But it is not possible to just remove the chimney breast in the kitchen alone since the weight of everything above rests on it.  

I am completely stuck and not sure how this can be done. The chimney stack is in difficult position for someone to climb and work on it, I don't know how experts do this kind of stuff. The chimney itself is shared between the houses. I want the chimney breasts gone but they are on party wall.

Is there anything that can be done short of me making an agreemnt with the neigbour for the whole chimey to be removed and then repairs be done in both houses to fix the cieling and wall, on my expense alone? The neighbour has 2 small children and might not agree to some much trash being made of his house you see. Chimney removal is quite a dirt producing process.

35har1old

okhajut said:

So I live in a semi-detatched house. There is a chimney right in the center of the building on the party wall. Half the chimey is on my side and the other half is on the neighbour's side. Upper portion of this chimney is in bedroom. Lower portion is in the kitchen.

Please note that there is no loft as such through which the chimney passes. This chimney is on the back portion of the house, in the room that is next to the back garden of the house.

I want to remove this chimney (breast) before I do kitchen renovation. But it is not possible to just remove the chimney breast in the kitchen alone since the weight of everything above rests on it.  

I am completely stuck and not sure how this can be done. The chimney stack is in difficult position for someone to climb and work on it, I don't know how experts do this kind of stuff. The chimney itself is shared between the houses. I want the chimney breasts gone but they are on party wall.

Is there anything that can be done short of me making an agreemnt with the neigbour for the whole chimey to be removed and then repairs be done in both houses to fix the cieling and wall, on my expense alone? The neighbour has 2 small children and might not agree to some much trash being made of his house you see. Chimney removal is quite a dirt producing process.

As is between both properties is it a shared chimney not used by you neighbour?
Also the building insurance might be a issue

pramsay13

How much space does the chimney breast take up? 
It sounds like a lot of hassle and expense for not much gain. 

Nobbie1967

Should be possible with suitable support installed. You need to get a structural engineer in to advise on a suitable scheme and provide calculations for the support needed. 

okhajut

Rooms in the UK are quite small. The chimney breast walls exist in the kitchen but the center contains the cooker/hob. The walls take up space on the shelves so can't use that area at all.

The space saving in the bedoom is not super useful. But the main problem is with the kitchen. The kitchen layout is ruined because of this chimney.

If there was a way to put an extractor into the chimney, then we might decide against taking the chimney doing and doing a complete renovation of the kitchen by moving everything (shelf, cooker, storage) to the other side that is not party wall.

silvercar

Hallow brackets where allowed or an RSJ may allow you to do what you want.

twopenny

At some point the two chimneys come together for the one chimney stack. This is usually in the loft but you say you don't have one.

How does the neighbour feel about not having or be able to have for sale, the option of a chimney?

They or you will also have to do some fixing around their fire places/flues if you remove the chimney stack to make good.

Will your neighbour be happy with having building work in their house and roof so you can have the kitchen you wish? I've had lesser issues with a neighbour when I had a semi and it was daggers at dawn!

ThisIsWeird

Hi Okhajut.

First a statement of the bleedin' obvious - do not entertain doing this without the agreement of your neighbour. This does not necessarily mean the cost and hassle of a PWA surveyor, tho' if the neighbour insists on this, then I understand you'll have to employ one on their behalf. But there's two scenarios where the neighb might be happy to allow you to proceed without one; the first is if you demonstrate your reliability by talking it through with them, and making it clear you'll be doing this properly - eg with oversight by Building Control, and the use of a trusted and competent local builder, and with the required structural calcs in place. And the other is if the neighb says "Great idea! Me too..."

So, not necessarily requiring a PWA surveyor. But if you give your neighb any cause for concern, then don't be surprised if they insist.

Then - I think - it would be getting a couple of good local builders out to discuss and give ballpark figures for the work, just to see if it's a goer in any way - you may find out it's just far too costly. They should be able to talk through the options with you - whether kitchen only is doable (and a rough price), whether the upstairs is best taken out too (and ditto), what can happen with the external stack (dittos for options), and also the implications for next door - and the options of them having the same done too (just to be armed with everything).

These will obviously be rough figures, but could be like, "£2-3k to remove the kitchen breast and RSJ everything above, around £5k including the upstairs, £6.5k for the whole stack and making good the roof..." (NB - these are completely arbitrary figures.) This will tell you if it's a goer, and also what you can discuss with your neighb.

If you wish to proceed, then it's a call to Building Control, and the BCO will almost certainly come out and give it the once-over, and tell you what they'll need - ie Struct Calcs and stuff.

Hopefully the builders will be able to recommend SEs, and you can even ask the BCO in the form of, "I know you cannot recommend an SE, but do you happen to know of any that'll tackle a small job like this?"

Factor in a £ouple of £undred for a BC 'Small Works Cert' (I think it's called, and it could be more), and a £ew £undred for the SE - these can vary by a huge margin. You can usually call up or email the SEs giving a description of the type of house (and address...) and explaining the requirement - they can hopefully give a quote from that. 

First see if your neighb fancies having theirs done too, once they have your figures. That will also affect the SE's task - not so much 'RSJ's any more, but the making good of the party wall.

I think that's pretty much the procedure.

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said: Hopefully the builders will be able to recommend SEs,

And if the builder says Structural Engineers calcs are not needed or Building Regs don't apply, tell him/her to get back on the horse and leave. Taking out the chimney breast on the ground floor will leave several tonnes of brickwork above needing proper support. Get it wrong, and you have this to look forward to -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF1pHzGkSC4

twopenny

I'm speechless   
I thought the neighbours one was going as well but more than one roof was still going to need fixing. Doubt insurance covers it.

ThisIsWeird

I know, I know!

My bad. I really thought that last brick would hold it until I got the timber post in place.