Solar power export back to grid without a smart meter

systemparadox

We're looking at getting solar panels installed and would be planning to be exporting at least some electricity back to the grid. We've been given conflicting information about what you're allowed to do without having a smart meter and I was wondering if anyone could help provide any clarity.

Putting together the various bits I've been told or found myself online I've got the following options:

1. You have to get a smart meter to export at all.
2. You get a separate export meter installed as part of the solar install and the existing analog meter can remain untouched and will still be used for import.
3. No changes to meters necessary, the analog meter will go backwards when exporting.
3a. It's fine as long you're importing more than exporting so you never submit negative readings.
3b. It's not actually allowed but if on average you use more than you generate and never submit a negative reading then you can get away with it.
3c. It works but it's definitely not allowed and someone is going to notice

I'm pretty sure that 1 is incorrect - a smart meter is also an export meter, but you can just have a separate export meter instead.

So I think my main question is about technically how this works - is 3 even possible or is it  impossible because of the way it's wired up? If it is possible is it allowed, not technically allowed but people do it anyway, or absolutely not allowed?

I'm not necessarily against getting a smart meter (some of the Octopus agile tariffs look very interesting), and I'm not suggesting doing anything dodgy, but I would like to understand this area better.

One installer was also talking about putting a "generation meter" into the meter cupboard that it was just for our information and nothing to do with exporting. Has anyone heard of this before?

Thanks.

MikeJXE

So as I read that 3 would be a good deal

You would be receiving the same value exporting as importing as the meter would be knocking off the amount you had used 

I could be wrong of coarse as I don't know anything about solar panels or meters smart or dumb 

The_Green_Hornet

1. Would be the easiest & is a pre-requisite for most suppliers to enrol you onto their Smart Export Guarantee tariff
2. See 1
3. If your analogue meter runs backwards you are required to inform your supplier who will most likely replace it with a smart meter

Personally, I would just get a smart meter installed.

Here is a list of the best SEG/Export Tariffs currently available -> https://www.solarpanelprices.co.uk/articles/solar-panels/best-smart-export-guarantee-tariffs/

Reed_Richards

1)  Maybe not 100% true but the easiest option
2)  False.  If you want a separate export meter you'll probably have to ask for one and pay extra for it (probably more for the labour of fitting it than for the actual meter).  Then there's no guarantee that your export provider would accept the readings.
3)  This may work with some analogue meters but it's no more legal than any other form of meter tampering.  You would have to do what @The_Green_Hornet says, report this to your supplier who will get your meter replaced. 

QrizB

1 is incorrect. I (and pretty much every other domestic solar PV owner prior to the smart meter rollout) exported through a non-smart digital meter for roughly a decade.

None of the export was metered, and none was explicitly paid for.

2 is permitted but only if you have an existing import meter that doesn't run backwards.

3 depends on the meter. Some (not all) models of electromechanical meter will run in reverse. If you have one of these, you need to inform your supplier and they should replace it. Not informing your supplier leaves you open to meter tampering charges.

What make and model of meter do you have? Post a photo if you can't identify it, someone here will be able to help.

One installer was also talking about putting a "generation meter" into the meter cupboard that it was just for our information and nothing to do with exporting. Has anyone heard of this before?

Everyone gets a generation meter as part of the MCS spec. It is for your information only, and (for systems installed now) plays no part in payment.

debitcardmayhem

Get a smart meter, that will allow more choice of tariffs 

wrf12345

You will be very lucky to have one of the mechanical meters that actually runs backwards, the amount you get paid for exported electricity varies according to the energy retailer you are signed up to (once you have a smart meter) so basically it will add up to a small bonus - probably a better solution than large solar is a radical downsizing in the amount of electricity that you use and then a much smaller solar system with battery back-up, perhaps DIY with an off-grid circuit that may give you the opportunity of avoid the larceny of the energy retailers altogether.

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

1 is incorrect. I (and pretty much every other domestic solar PV owner prior to the smart meter rollout) exported through a non-smart digital meter for roughly a decade.

None of the export was metered, and none was explicitly paid for.

2 is permitted but only if you have an existing import meter that doesn't run backwards.

3 depends on the meter. Some (not all) models of electromechanical meter will run in reverse. If you have one of these, you need to inform your supplier and they should replace it. Not informing your supplier leaves you open to meter tampering charges.

What make and model of meter do you have? Post a photo if you can't identify it, someone here will be able to help.

One installer was also talking about putting a "generation meter" into the meter cupboard that it was just for our information and nothing to do with exporting. Has anyone heard of this before?

Everyone gets a generation meter as part of the MCS spec. It is for your information only, and (for systems installed now) plays no part in payment.

People shouldn’t confuse deemed export on FIT with measured export on SEG. That said, a number of existing FIT payers are moving their generators to measured export via a smart meter (Good Energy for example). This is allowed for in the FIT contract.

I cannot speak for other SEG payers but Octopus has a requirement for a smart meter with an Export MPAN set up on a 30 minute profile.

https://octopus.energy/smart/smart-export-guarantee/

mmmmikey

The simple practical answer is that relying on your meter running backwards is frought with problems for the reasons outlined above (not least of which is it might not work at all). So it comes down to choosing between having a separate export meter or having a smart meter. I'm struggling to think of a single advantage of having a spearate export meter, but on the other hand there are lots of advantages to having a smart meter including the big ones in this context:

It's free

You'll get access to much better monitoring than you would otherwise (through a combination of the IHD and various apps that) which is very helpful when you have solar panels installed as it gives you the info you need to make the most of the solar panels

You'll get access to an increasing range of time of use tarriffs which can be particularly good if you have solar panels - the solar panels give you "free" energy during the day so finding a tarriff with a cheap overnight rate can save you a lot as you won't take such a big hit from the more expensive day rate

So unless you've bought into the conspiracy theory nonsense about smart meters or are just stubbornly refusing to have one for whatever reason, as long as there's no technical issue stopping you getting one, opting for a smart meter is a no-brainer ( IMHO of course :-) )

Reed_Richards

QrizB said:

1 is incorrect. I (and pretty much every other domestic solar PV owner prior to the smart meter rollout) exported through a non-smart digital meter for roughly a decade.

None of the export was metered, and none was explicitly paid for.

The point QrizB is making here is that if you do nothing, you almost certainly will export your excess solar power, you just won't get paid for it.  To get paid, legally, you need an export meter that provides reading that are acceptable to whoever is paying you for your exported electricity.      

systemparadox

Thanks for the comments. Putting it all together plus a few other bits I've found, it seems that:

- A separate export meter is possible but these days you'd be expected to just get a smart meter.
- If you're generating more than you use then you will be exporting, it's just that if you don't have the right metering you won't get paid for it.
- Some analog meters might go backwards, but many won't and if it does it would be considered tampering and you can get in trouble.
- Separate generation meters were used as part of the old FiT (Feed-in Tariff) scheme where they would pay you based on 50% of the amount you generated, rather than how much you actually exported. Possibly this is because the technology at the time didn't allow for metering this? It looks like generation meters are still installed but are just for information these days as payment is done via export metering (via SEG - Smart Export Guarantee).