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Is now a good time to buy for FTBs

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  • Mstty
    Mstty Posts: 4,209 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 18 August 2023 at 10:29AM
    Herzlos said:
    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    More realistically, you are paying back a large debt over time.
    You are paying out anyway - either serving mortgage repayments or by paying rent.  

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    and you are vulnerable to inflation/interest rate spikes in that time.
    You are vulnerable to inflation in most aspects of life.  You cannot isolate yourself from that whichever route you go.  At least with a mortgage you have periods of certainty whilst any fixed rate is in place.    

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    many people won`t be able to hold on to the house now because they can`t afford the debt
    That only applies to those that have sailed too close to the wind in terms of affordability.  Agreed many have been tempted to do this as, for many years, they have considered exceptionally low interest rates to be the norm.  They are now discovering that they are not.  With my first flat in the 80's I went form a mortgage payment of £300-ish an month to over £700 so I have been through it.  In my case I knuckled down to hang onto the place. 

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    "equity" won`t feature in their financial future unfortunately.
    That is not necessarily true either.  I have just sold said flat for £210,000 more than I paid for it.  A nice pre-retirement windfall.

    But even if circumstances for most are different and they cannot release the equity, they will still one day be in a position where they do not have monthly rent costs.  You cannot, particularly when looking at your latter years, be in a better position by paying rent.  So anyway you look at it, buying your home is an investment with considerable benefit.     


    How could you possibly know what other investments people have or how much money they have to spend on rent in the future, many people with recent mortgages will still be paying the bank back as they head into retirement anyway? Blanket statements like these are the reason many people fell for the Mortgage Always Better than Rent myth and are now looking at eye watering debt costs that will hamper their ability to save for retirement for years to come.
    Ok then, to be more accurate:

    It is unlikely for most people, in anything other than circumstances contrived purely for mathematical demonstration or a complete collapse of the economy which would likely drag down most alternative investments as well, that they will be better off paying rent which returns no equity stake in a property than by paying a mortgage which does.
    Unless of course you bought at the highest prices in history, highest multiples of salary in history for housing, at the lowest rates in history to take on debt, then got caught up in the fastest rate hikes in history which saw your debt repayments double, then the maths doesn`t work, you would have been financially better off in a cheap rental

    Assuming of course that the cheap rental is of a similar standard to the mortgaged house, and the cheap rental hasn't launched up in price as well?

    Any time I've looked, rent has been significantly more than a mortgage, and if you're paying any capital back on the mortgage then after 20-30 years you get to stop paying once it's cleared. Even ignoring equity entirely, over the longer term the mortgage is a better idea.

    As for over-extending and buying at peak before rates flew up, that definitely sucks and will force some people to downsize, but to most of them it's going to be largely irrelevant in 20 years time.

    When I bought just before the 2008 crash I was in about £30k negative equity almost immediately, but I sold it recently with £70k positive equity. Had I rented the same thing I'd have paid out twice as much and got nothing back on it. 
    Ah but you are forgetting the crashy way is the one where everyone can live at home with parents forever until the time is right to buy.
  • Sarah1Mitty2
    Sarah1Mitty2 Posts: 1,838 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Herzlos said:
    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    More realistically, you are paying back a large debt over time.
    You are paying out anyway - either serving mortgage repayments or by paying rent.  

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    and you are vulnerable to inflation/interest rate spikes in that time.
    You are vulnerable to inflation in most aspects of life.  You cannot isolate yourself from that whichever route you go.  At least with a mortgage you have periods of certainty whilst any fixed rate is in place.    

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    many people won`t be able to hold on to the house now because they can`t afford the debt
    That only applies to those that have sailed too close to the wind in terms of affordability.  Agreed many have been tempted to do this as, for many years, they have considered exceptionally low interest rates to be the norm.  They are now discovering that they are not.  With my first flat in the 80's I went form a mortgage payment of £300-ish an month to over £700 so I have been through it.  In my case I knuckled down to hang onto the place. 

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    "equity" won`t feature in their financial future unfortunately.
    That is not necessarily true either.  I have just sold said flat for £210,000 more than I paid for it.  A nice pre-retirement windfall.

    But even if circumstances for most are different and they cannot release the equity, they will still one day be in a position where they do not have monthly rent costs.  You cannot, particularly when looking at your latter years, be in a better position by paying rent.  So anyway you look at it, buying your home is an investment with considerable benefit.     


    How could you possibly know what other investments people have or how much money they have to spend on rent in the future, many people with recent mortgages will still be paying the bank back as they head into retirement anyway? Blanket statements like these are the reason many people fell for the Mortgage Always Better than Rent myth and are now looking at eye watering debt costs that will hamper their ability to save for retirement for years to come.
    Ok then, to be more accurate:

    It is unlikely for most people, in anything other than circumstances contrived purely for mathematical demonstration or a complete collapse of the economy which would likely drag down most alternative investments as well, that they will be better off paying rent which returns no equity stake in a property than by paying a mortgage which does.
    Unless of course you bought at the highest prices in history, highest multiples of salary in history for housing, at the lowest rates in history to take on debt, then got caught up in the fastest rate hikes in history which saw your debt repayments double, then the maths doesn`t work, you would have been financially better off in a cheap rental

    Assuming of course that the cheap rental is of a similar standard to the mortgaged house, and the cheap rental hasn't launched up in price as well?

    Any time I've looked, rent has been significantly more than a mortgage, and if you're paying any capital back on the mortgage then after 20-30 years you get to stop paying once it's cleared. Even ignoring equity entirely, over the longer term the mortgage is a better idea.

    As for over-extending and buying at peak before rates flew up, that definitely sucks and will force some people to downsize, but to most of them it's going to be largely irrelevant in 20 years time.

    When I bought just before the 2008 crash I was in about £30k negative equity almost immediately, but I sold it recently with £70k positive equity. Had I rented the same thing I'd have paid out twice as much and got nothing back on it. 
    1) Doesn`t have to be similar standard, it is the difference between overpaying and renting cheaply I was discussing.

    2) Mortgage is significantly more now.

    3) Many were already in "starter homes" at these silly prices, what will they downsize to? (assuming cladding etc. laws allow them to even sell?)

    4) Your house made you the equivalent of a couple of overtime shifts a month, but unless you downsized or waited for price drops this money didn`t stay in the bank?

    Can I ask what level base rate was at when you sold this house?
  • 1) Doesn`t have to be similar standard, it is the difference between overpaying and renting cheaply I was discussing.

    Where will you rent cheaply? Rents are through the roof, much more than mortgages.

    2) Mortgage is significantly more now.

    No, they are not. Yes, some mortgages will go up a few hundreds of pounds (eventually), but rents are rising by much more than that.

    3) Many were already in "starter homes" at these silly prices, what will they downsize to? (assuming cladding etc. laws allow them to even sell?)

    What's a silly price? Covid might have accelerated house price growth, but that growth is now very much embedded in. At this point in time, anything between a 20-40% drop will only get you back down to covid peak levels, so it's not like that will be cancelled. People did buy those properties, that's the price.

    4) Your house made you the equivalent of a couple of overtime shifts a month, but unless you downsized or waited for price drops this money didn`t stay in the bank?

    No, but the money is there. You can access it by means of re-mortgaging, secured loans, long-term equity release and/or future plans (retirement, selling etc.). It also grows steadily.

    Can I ask what level base rate was at when you sold this house?
    See my answers above.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 16,065 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 18 August 2023 at 3:21PM
    1) Doesn`t have to be similar standard, it is the difference between overpaying and renting cheaply I was discussing.

    2) Mortgage is significantly more now.

    3) Many were already in "starter homes" at these silly prices, what will they downsize to? (assuming cladding etc. laws allow them to even sell?)

    4) Your house made you the equivalent of a couple of overtime shifts a month, but unless you downsized or waited for price drops this money didn`t stay in the bank?

    Can I ask what level base rate was at when you sold this house?
    1. You need to compare a similar standard. Obviously renting a 1 bed flat is likely to be cheaper than buying a 4 bed bungalow, because it's meaningless because not everyone wants to live in a tiny box waiting on the perfect time to buy a bigger house and enjoy life.

    2. Mortgage is more than rent? Are you sure? Because lots of rentals are going up to match landlords mortgage increases.

    3. I suspect the people over-leveraged are more likely to be in bigger homes than starters.

    4. The money didn't go into a landlords bank either. It helped me with better LTV rates and a huge deposit.


    5. 5.25%. We sold recently and had enough interest for it to go for a healthy figure. I can't remember the base rate when I bought, but my first mortgage was at 5.7% and was still cheaper than renting.

    Edit: Base rate was 5.5% when I bought last time. That was just before the crash and of course we could be looking at another crash. I may lose out a bit on paper if we do crash, but I'm in a house I really like and any paper loss right now will mean nothing in 20 years time.

    How long have you been renting a tiny bedsit waiting for houses to crash now? How big a drop do you need to break even?

  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 16,065 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Mstty said:
    Herzlos said:
    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    More realistically, you are paying back a large debt over time.
    You are paying out anyway - either serving mortgage repayments or by paying rent.  

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    and you are vulnerable to inflation/interest rate spikes in that time.
    You are vulnerable to inflation in most aspects of life.  You cannot isolate yourself from that whichever route you go.  At least with a mortgage you have periods of certainty whilst any fixed rate is in place.    

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    many people won`t be able to hold on to the house now because they can`t afford the debt
    That only applies to those that have sailed too close to the wind in terms of affordability.  Agreed many have been tempted to do this as, for many years, they have considered exceptionally low interest rates to be the norm.  They are now discovering that they are not.  With my first flat in the 80's I went form a mortgage payment of £300-ish an month to over £700 so I have been through it.  In my case I knuckled down to hang onto the place. 

    MEM62 said:
    MEM62 said:
    tbo127 said:
    Is now a good time to buy for first time buyers given the falling property prices? 
    If not now then when?  

    If you need somewhere to live you can either buy or rent.  The former is an investment, the latter isn't.    
    It isn`t really, it is a highly illiquid  (and for many people now a highly leveraged) asset that is very difficult to sell in property downturns/crashes and you can lose your deposit and also go into negative equity where you would need the banks permission to sell, and if borrowing mortgage debt you are exposed to interest rate fluctuations for decades (you can fix but not for the full term of the mortgage) You can walk away from a rental, you can`t walk away from a mortgage debt.
    Of course it is.  It gains equity over time and eventually places you in a position where you are not paying either mortgage or rent.  For many, it will be one of the best investments that they make.  The argument that being illiquid and not easily disposable means that it is not an investment just does not hold water.  Not every investment you make needs to be liquid.    

    Yes, you can walk away from a rental but what that got to do with the fact that buying your home being an investment?  Making life decisions based only on what you can easily walk away from is hardly the best philosophy, is it?    
    "equity" won`t feature in their financial future unfortunately.
    That is not necessarily true either.  I have just sold said flat for £210,000 more than I paid for it.  A nice pre-retirement windfall.

    But even if circumstances for most are different and they cannot release the equity, they will still one day be in a position where they do not have monthly rent costs.  You cannot, particularly when looking at your latter years, be in a better position by paying rent.  So anyway you look at it, buying your home is an investment with considerable benefit.     


    How could you possibly know what other investments people have or how much money they have to spend on rent in the future, many people with recent mortgages will still be paying the bank back as they head into retirement anyway? Blanket statements like these are the reason many people fell for the Mortgage Always Better than Rent myth and are now looking at eye watering debt costs that will hamper their ability to save for retirement for years to come.
    Ok then, to be more accurate:

    It is unlikely for most people, in anything other than circumstances contrived purely for mathematical demonstration or a complete collapse of the economy which would likely drag down most alternative investments as well, that they will be better off paying rent which returns no equity stake in a property than by paying a mortgage which does.
    Unless of course you bought at the highest prices in history, highest multiples of salary in history for housing, at the lowest rates in history to take on debt, then got caught up in the fastest rate hikes in history which saw your debt repayments double, then the maths doesn`t work, you would have been financially better off in a cheap rental

    Assuming of course that the cheap rental is of a similar standard to the mortgaged house, and the cheap rental hasn't launched up in price as well?

    Any time I've looked, rent has been significantly more than a mortgage, and if you're paying any capital back on the mortgage then after 20-30 years you get to stop paying once it's cleared. Even ignoring equity entirely, over the longer term the mortgage is a better idea.

    As for over-extending and buying at peak before rates flew up, that definitely sucks and will force some people to downsize, but to most of them it's going to be largely irrelevant in 20 years time.

    When I bought just before the 2008 crash I was in about £30k negative equity almost immediately, but I sold it recently with £70k positive equity. Had I rented the same thing I'd have paid out twice as much and got nothing back on it. 
    Ah but you are forgetting the crashy way is the one where everyone can live at home with parents forever until the time is right to buy.
    Ugh. I'd rather than a 10% house price hit than have to live with my parents.

  • SXX
    SXX Posts: 237 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Look at it like this : You will need a roof over your head from the day you are born to the day you die. Food for thought.
  • Sarah1Mitty2
    Sarah1Mitty2 Posts: 1,838 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Herzlos said:
    1) Doesn`t have to be similar standard, it is the difference between overpaying and renting cheaply I was discussing.

    2) Mortgage is significantly more now.

    3) Many were already in "starter homes" at these silly prices, what will they downsize to? (assuming cladding etc. laws allow them to even sell?)

    4) Your house made you the equivalent of a couple of overtime shifts a month, but unless you downsized or waited for price drops this money didn`t stay in the bank?

    Can I ask what level base rate was at when you sold this house?
    1. You need to compare a similar standard. Obviously renting a 1 bed flat is likely to be cheaper than buying a 4 bed bungalow, because it's meaningless because not everyone wants to live in a tiny box waiting on the perfect time to buy a bigger house and enjoy life.

    2. Mortgage is more than rent? Are you sure? Because lots of rentals are going up to match landlords mortgage increases.

    3. I suspect the people over-leveraged are more likely to be in bigger homes than starters.

    4. The money didn't go into a landlords bank either. It helped me with better LTV rates and a huge deposit.


    5. 5.25%. We sold recently and had enough interest for it to go for a healthy figure. I can't remember the base rate when I bought, but my first mortgage was at 5.7% and was still cheaper than renting.

    Edit: Base rate was 5.5% when I bought last time. That was just before the crash and of course we could be looking at another crash. I may lose out a bit on paper if we do crash, but I'm in a house I really like and any paper loss right now will mean nothing in 20 years time.

    How long have you been renting a tiny bedsit waiting for houses to crash now? How big a drop do you need to break even?

    That seems to have worked out well for you, but it doesn`t change the fact that people who allowed themselves to be drawn into big debt before rates went up will now in many cases be in financial difficulty, they wouldn`t be in financial difficulty if they stayed at home or in the cheap rental or the house share or whatever.
  • Mstty
    Mstty Posts: 4,209 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    @Sarah1Mitty2

    I think you miss the point, house ownership is not easy but it is rewarding. Sometimes you buy at the height and sometimes in a dip but there will be many heights and dips throughout your 25+ years mortgage journey.

    Anyone that keeps putting people off buying may never get it.

    1) the feeling of coming home to your own property
    2) sense of achievement
    3) the options financially it brings later in life

    How old are you Sarah(roughly) what is your property situation are you still at home? Or are you renting paying some else's mortgage for them?

    It would be good to know where all this bitterness to property ownership comes from as you could end up convincing people to follow your advice and they will miss out as you may have done.




  • spoovy
    spoovy Posts: 249 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    tbo127 said:
    It’s hard to know if you buy and then you’ll regret it a couple of years later. 
    But buying a house isn't a "couple of years" arrangement, it's more like a couple of decades. Over that timescale it's very unlikely you'll regret it. 

    Let's put it to the test. Are there any mortgage-free homeowners on here who wish they were still renting instead? 
  • Mstty
    Mstty Posts: 4,209 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    spoovy said:
    tbo127 said:
    It’s hard to know if you buy and then you’ll regret it a couple of years later. 
    But buying a house isn't a "couple of years" arrangement, it's more like a couple of decades. Over that timescale it's very unlikely you'll regret it. 

    Let's put it to the test. Are there any mortgage-free homeowners on here who wish they were still renting instead? 
    No, and that's the thing here owning a house and mortgage rent free is the idyllic place most would like to be. Hopefully still in full time employment enjoying all that extra money to spend and plan for the future and enjoy.

    All these "don't buy" commentators on the board just don't get that.
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