20mph Wales

born_again

MouldyOldDough said:

https://mol.im/a/12393711
I can't see this actually happening.....
It's going to cause more pollution due to low gear 
More noise due to high revs 

Does not compute
Unless you are a idiot & sit in 1st gear. Plenty or 20 zones round here on residential streets. Causes no problems & makes it safer for all road users.

Jonboy_1984

born_again 

Does not compute
Unless you are a idiot & sit in 1st gear. Plenty or 20 zones round here on residential streets. Causes no problems & makes it safer for all road users.

We are getting lots of blanket 20mph zones in Oxfordshire towns and villages, and as a cyclist I hate them. 

Previously the speed differential meant typically cars got to safe spot, overtook and moved on. Now they are at a very similar speed and cars either pass, get passed and pass again (had it four times in a one mile village a couple,of weeks back due to traffic calming measures that allow bikes to bypass etc etc ) or sit on your back wheel for the duration.

There is also the frustration of driving at 20mph through miles of empty roads at times when there are no others in sight whether pedestrians, cyclists, cars or horses….

MX5huggy

Looking forward to it, put the ACC on in my EV and then I’ll be able to catch up on TikTok. 

Bigphil1474

The suburb of the city I live in (in England) is all 20mph inside the 2 main roads that go round it. I can't say it has bothered me one way or the other, just takes maybe an extra 30 seconds to get to the main roads. Cars do still exceed the speed limit but they are probably in between the old 30mph limit and new 20mph limit. Can't say I've noticed if it's any quieter or not, but it obviously reduces the risk of a collision between vehicles and pedestrians so that's enough for me. In my car, I can drive at 20mph in 3rd gear and it's fine. 

victor2

Having recently driven back and forth through Bath quite a few times, which has a 20mph speed limit around much of its centre, I can say I hated it. My hybrid copes with it quite well, running much of the time on its battery, but my DD made the same journey in her little petrol engined auto and was completely frustrated. The car kept trying to change gears and she had to force it to stay in a low gear.

Modern cars are not designed to "cruise" at such low speeds. Of course there is the safety aspect, and I'm all in favour of 20 limits around schools. Responsible drivers make the effort to observe the limit, knowing they can go back up to 30 once out of it. Going through a large area restricted to 20 is stressful, and you end up concentrating on the speedo rather than observing the road IMO.

MouldyOldDough

victor2 said:

Having recently driven back and forth through Bath quite a few times, which has a 20mph speed limit around much of its centre, I can say I hated it. My hybrid copes with it quite well, running much of the time on its battery, but my DD made the same journey in her little petrol engined auto and was completely frustrated. The car kept trying to change gears and she had to force it to stay in a low gear.

Modern cars are not designed to "cruise" at such low speeds. Of course there is the safety aspect, and I'm all in favour of 20 limits around schools. Responsible drivers make the effort to observe the limit, knowing they can go back up to 30 once out of it. Going through a large area restricted to 20 is stressful, and you end up concentrating on the speedo rather than observing the road IMO.

Exactly what I was saying - especially in smalll (sub 1 litre) automatics - they are not designed to drive so slowly

Mine keeps on changing between 3rd and 4th (of 6)

MouldyOldDough

born_again said:

MouldyOldDough said:

https://mol.im/a/12393711
I can't see this actually happening.....
It's going to cause more pollution due to low gear 
More noise due to high revs 

Does not compute
Unless you are a idiot & sit in 1st gear. Plenty or 20 zones round here on residential streets. Causes no problems & makes it safer for all road users.

Yes it does - if your car doesn't like top gear at 20mph (and I don't know what car does) - and remains in a lower gear - the engine will be turning at faster revs - than it would in top gear - so the exhaust  will be pumping out more noxious gases (per mile) !

Simple

I am not denying the safety side of it !!!!

MouldyOldDough

WellKnownSid said:

MouldyOldDough said:

WellKnownSid said:

MouldyOldDough said:

https://mol.im/a/12393711
I can't see this actually happening.....
It's going to cause more pollution due to low gear 
More noise due to high revs 

I don’t think 20mph is noisier vs 30mph
i doubt pollution is higher - that would make no sense
The death rate amongst small children running out in front of the car will be arguably lower which some will no doubt consider a negative 🙄

Of course pollution will be higher 
Higher revs = more grams CO2 and N2O per mile
Can your 6 speed car maintain 20mph in 6th gear? 

No but my hybrid spends a lot more time in pure EV mode at 20mph

And CO2 being proportional to V^3 will be lower

I appreciate that “the system” is gradually eroding your God-given right to drive a motor vehicle and all that, but hasn’t that always been the case ever since they had that bloke walk in front of a horseless carriage carrying a flag?

of course I am referring to proper cars (purely with ic engines)

CliveOfIndia

victor2 said:

Modern cars are not designed to "cruise" at such low speeds. Of course there is the safety aspect, and I'm all in favour of 20 limits around schools. Responsible drivers make the effort to observe the limit, knowing they can go back up to 30 once out of it. Going through a large area restricted to 20 is stressful, and you end up concentrating on the speedo rather than observing the road IMO.

I'm in complete agreement with you.  I also think blanket speed limits are somewhat flawed in their nature - as they always say, speed doesn't kill, inappropriate speed does.

In the village where I live there are many very small, narrow residential roads.  They are all the default 30mph limit, but on most of them, doing 30 would be insane.  Everyone drives at maybe 10 or 15 mph, because they know full well that there will be kids playing or dogs, cats - and even chickens, I kid you not - wandering across the road.

At the other end of the scale, many's the time I've been driving on a motorway, suddenly you drive into thick fog or a huge downpour of rain.  Or if it's covered in snow, or icy.  Most sensible drivers slow down to maybe 30 mph or whatever is safe for the conditions.

One time a couple of years back we had an almighty downpour of snow, the road had not yet been gritted or ploughed, everyone was crawling along at about 15mph.  Some nutter came past in the outside lane doing about 40.  Perfectly legal, but almost suicidal.

In an ideal world there would be no speed limits and everyone would just drive at a speed appropriate to the road, traffic and weather conditions - whether than be 10 mph or 100 mph.  Of course that can never happen in reality, but we can dream.

MacPingu1986

victor2 said:

Having recently driven back and forth through Bath quite a few times, which has a 20mph speed limit around much of its centre, I can say I hated it. My hybrid copes with it quite well, running much of the time on its battery, but my DD made the same journey in her little petrol engined auto and was completely frustrated. The car kept trying to change gears and she had to force it to stay in a low gear.

Modern cars are not designed to "cruise" at such low speeds. Of course there is the safety aspect, and I'm all in favour of 20 limits around schools. Responsible drivers make the effort to observe the limit, knowing they can go back up to 30 once out of it. Going through a large area restricted to 20 is stressful, and you end up concentrating on the speedo rather than observing the road IMO.

If a driver can't safely control their speed whilst sufficiently observing the road, they need to be driving more *slowly* not faster.