Cost of living payments: are they considered capital/savings, once paid into benefits account

poppy12345

[Deleted User] said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

For UC entitlement it's based on your circumstances on the last day of each assessment period. For example, If your assessment periods are 15th to 14th of every month then what counts will be what you have in total on the 14th of every month.

NedS

[Deleted User] said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

Auti

What happens if you have different payment dates for other monthly money to UC - does each payment go on its own payment date/frequency (cb, CBESA, PIP etc) or are they counted on UC date as savings?

Spoonie_Turtle

Auti said:

What happens if you have different payment dates for other monthly money to UC - does each payment go on its own payment date/frequency (cb, CBESA, PIP etc) or are they counted on UC date as savings?

UC is the means-testing benefit so all income/savings are accounted using the UC 'end of next assessment period' method.

"H1050 Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the one in which it was received."
ADM chapter H1.

Auti

Spoonie_Turtle. Thank you - I think I understand. Just to make it ultra clear (I do misunderstand sometimes) eg Pip - UC assessment last day is 15th of month but my PIP is paid on the 14th that month and has to last me for 4 weeks. My understanding from what you have written is that UC will ignore the PIP on the 15th as it has its assessment last day after the UC assessment last day. PIP will only be counted as savings (should any be left) on the 15th of the following month’s assessment last day. 

As I have several different incomes it is all getting really confusing as to what is when and how etc. 

I have received a reminder to migrate letter and I am looking to start the process when child back at school so I can focus a bit more - still scary but you are all so helpful. Thank you.

poppy12345

PIP is a weekly benefit paid 4 weekly, not monthly and doesn't have an assessment period. 

For UC because you haven't yet started your claim then you won't have an assessment period yet. The first day of your assessment period will start on the day you submit your claim and last for 30 days each month. Seven days after the end of that period you will receive your payment.

If you're not close to the £6,000 lower figure then there shouldn't be anything to worry about yet.

Spoonie_Turtle

[Deleted User] said:

NedS said:

[Deleted User] said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

NedS said:

[Deleted User] said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

Thanks. It then gets confusing if have pip and child benefit and uni cred all paid different times so would be impossible to ever say if someone had a little money left over a month later from a uni cred payment or if that money was from pip of child Ben payments as they not paid at same time or on same time scale due to 4 weekly and monthly.

Kind of, but no, because it doesn't matter where it came from *unless* it's from something disregarded such as a CoL payment.  If the remaining income becoming capital is greater than the disregarded payment, you can disregard the whole amount of the payment.

E.g. if you received the £300 CoL payment, and had £400 remaining at the end of the next AP, you can disregard the whole £300. 
However if you had £200 remaining at the end of the AP after receiving the CoL payment, you could only disregard that much because you don't have the whole amount of the disregarded payment left over, you obviously used some of it.

But otherwise, income tandem into account for UC is income regardless of which benefit it came from.  Once it's in your account it's just all your money, the source is irrelevant.

Spoonie_Turtle

jeb77 said:

jeb77 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

jeb77 said:

NedS said:

jeb77 said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

NedS said:

jeb77 said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

Thanks. It then gets confusing if have pip and child benefit and uni cred all paid different times so would be impossible to ever say if someone had a little money left over a month later from a uni cred payment or if that money was from pip of child Ben payments as they not paid at same time or on same time scale due to 4 weekly and monthly.

Kind of, but no, because it doesn't matter where it came from *unless* it's from something disregarded such as a CoL payment.  If the remaining income becoming capital is greater than the disregarded payment, you can disregard the whole amount of the payment.

E.g. if you received the £300 CoL payment, and had £400 remaining at the end of the next AP, you can disregard the whole £300. 
However if you had £200 remaining at the end of the AP after receiving the CoL payment, you could only disregard that much because you don't have the whole amount of the disregarded payment left over, you obviously used some of it.

But otherwise, income tandem into account for UC is income regardless of which benefit it came from.  Once it's in your account it's just all your money, the source is irrelevant.

Thanks thats really confusing me as I'm not taking about Cost of living sorry I don't understand 

Say you had uni cred paid on 15th. 
But pip paid on 25th and child benefit paid on 2nd. You would still have some of the child and pip in your account on the next 15th of the month even tho you spent all the uni credit. 
The money in your account can't be classed as savings or income as you've not had the 4 week period since the pip and child benefits been paid to use it all 

For UC it's what's left at the end of the assessment period after the one in which you received the payment.  "Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the one in which it was received."

So in your example above
'uni cred paid on 15th September
But pip paid on 25th September and child benefit paid on 2nd October.' - these are paid in the September/October assessment period, so anything left won't count as savings until the end of October/November assessment period.

(I mentioned Cost of Living payments previously because that's what this thread was originally about.)

poppy12345

[Deleted User] said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

[Deleted User] said:

NedS said:

[Deleted User] said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

NedS said:

[Deleted User] said:

poppy12345 said:

Auti said:

Thank you for this also. So I would include the COL payment letters in with my UC application (still not had the courage to managed migrate yet) to reduce my capital/savings amount? It is hard to know when to apply as my money ‘saved’ changes with what bill has just come out and what money has just gone in - I have various and all have different dates eg PIP, CBESA, CB and no idea how they are counted as capital — is it when they enter your account? Thank you

Money from your benefits isn't classed as capital until the end of the period in which they are paid for. After that time they are classed as capital.

So would that mean for Universal credit which is paid monthly, the money paid for say August isn't classed as capital until one month has passed eg September?

Correct - anything that remains unspent after one month, when you receive your next payment, then becomes capital. So if you manage to save £100 from your August payment, in September you will have £100 more savings (or capital).

Thanks. It then gets confusing if have pip and child benefit and uni cred all paid different times so would be impossible to ever say if someone had a little money left over a month later from a uni cred payment or if that money was from pip of child Ben payments as they not paid at same time or on same time scale due to 4 weekly and monthly.

Kind of, but no, because it doesn't matter where it came from *unless* it's from something disregarded such as a CoL payment.  If the remaining income becoming capital is greater than the disregarded payment, you can disregard the whole amount of the payment.

E.g. if you received the £300 CoL payment, and had £400 remaining at the end of the next AP, you can disregard the whole £300. 
However if you had £200 remaining at the end of the AP after receiving the CoL payment, you could only disregard that much because you don't have the whole amount of the disregarded payment left over, you obviously used some of it.

But otherwise, income tandem into account for UC is income regardless of which benefit it came from.  Once it's in your account it's just all your money, the source is irrelevant.

Thanks thats really confusing me as I'm not taking about Cost of living sorry I don't understand 

Yet you posted your original question on a thread that's regarding the Cost of living payments. This is why it's always better to start your own thread with your question because asking on someone else's thread causes confusion for others that are trying to advise.

poppy12345

I see some comments from @[Deleted User] have been removed. I don't see the point of that when their comments were already quoted anyway.