Octopus Power-Ups, Free Electricity in East England

Chrysalis

Dolor said:

QrizB said:

NorfolkCanary said:

Great way to save energy and be efficient /s

Even with the sarcasm tag, it looks like you've completely misunderstood the reason for the scheme.
This isn't about "saving energy" or "being efficient" it's about balancing the grid and saving everybody money.

It is necessary but nevertheless it is a bizarre way of balancing a Grid, and it is likely to get ‘worse’ as more renewables come on stream. We have to find a better way of managing supply and demand. Sadly, the wind doesn’t blow as strong in the areas that need the power as it does on the coast. That said, I cannot see the residents of London supporting a wind farm on Hampstead Heath.

My question is we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?

Is the future going to be energy will be cheaper in coastal areas?

The obvious thing for me getting battery capacity online that can handle excess energy from low demand periods.

CSI_Yorkshire

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

QrizB said:

NorfolkCanary said:

Great way to save energy and be efficient /s

Even with the sarcasm tag, it looks like you've completely misunderstood the reason for the scheme.
This isn't about "saving energy" or "being efficient" it's about balancing the grid and saving everybody money.

It is necessary but nevertheless it is a bizarre way of balancing a Grid, and it is likely to get ‘worse’ as more renewables come on stream. We have to find a better way of managing supply and demand. Sadly, the wind doesn’t blow as strong in the areas that need the power as it does on the coast. That said, I cannot see the residents of London supporting a wind farm on Hampstead Heath.

My question is we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?

Is the future going to be energy will be cheaper in coastal areas?

The obvious thing for me getting battery capacity online that can handle excess energy from low demand periods.

Not unless you would also say that we have multiple road networks connected to each other.

This scheme is more like saying "shop local to avoid getting stuck in a traffic jam".

Chrysalis

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

QrizB said:

NorfolkCanary said:

Great way to save energy and be efficient /s

Even with the sarcasm tag, it looks like you've completely misunderstood the reason for the scheme.
This isn't about "saving energy" or "being efficient" it's about balancing the grid and saving everybody money.

It is necessary but nevertheless it is a bizarre way of balancing a Grid, and it is likely to get ‘worse’ as more renewables come on stream. We have to find a better way of managing supply and demand. Sadly, the wind doesn’t blow as strong in the areas that need the power as it does on the coast. That said, I cannot see the residents of London supporting a wind farm on Hampstead Heath.

My question is we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?

Is the future going to be energy will be cheaper in coastal areas?

The obvious thing for me getting battery capacity online that can handle excess energy from low demand periods.

Not unless you would also say that we have multiple road networks connected to each other.

This scheme is more like saying "shop local to avoid getting stuck in a traffic jam".

We do, individual councils manage some of the roads, governments manage some as well.

CSI_Yorkshire

Chrysalis said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

QrizB said:

NorfolkCanary said:

Great way to save energy and be efficient /s

Even with the sarcasm tag, it looks like you've completely misunderstood the reason for the scheme.
This isn't about "saving energy" or "being efficient" it's about balancing the grid and saving everybody money.

It is necessary but nevertheless it is a bizarre way of balancing a Grid, and it is likely to get ‘worse’ as more renewables come on stream. We have to find a better way of managing supply and demand. Sadly, the wind doesn’t blow as strong in the areas that need the power as it does on the coast. That said, I cannot see the residents of London supporting a wind farm on Hampstead Heath.

My question is we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?

Is the future going to be energy will be cheaper in coastal areas?

The obvious thing for me getting battery capacity online that can handle excess energy from low demand periods.

Not unless you would also say that we have multiple road networks connected to each other.

This scheme is more like saying "shop local to avoid getting stuck in a traffic jam".

We do, individual councils manage some of the roads, governments manage some as well.

I didn't realise that I paid a transit fee for moving between different council areas.  That must have slipped my notice.

Chrysalis

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Chrysalis said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

QrizB said:

NorfolkCanary said:

Great way to save energy and be efficient /s

Even with the sarcasm tag, it looks like you've completely misunderstood the reason for the scheme.
This isn't about "saving energy" or "being efficient" it's about balancing the grid and saving everybody money.

It is necessary but nevertheless it is a bizarre way of balancing a Grid, and it is likely to get ‘worse’ as more renewables come on stream. We have to find a better way of managing supply and demand. Sadly, the wind doesn’t blow as strong in the areas that need the power as it does on the coast. That said, I cannot see the residents of London supporting a wind farm on Hampstead Heath.

My question is we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?

Is the future going to be energy will be cheaper in coastal areas?

The obvious thing for me getting battery capacity online that can handle excess energy from low demand periods.

Not unless you would also say that we have multiple road networks connected to each other.

This scheme is more like saying "shop local to avoid getting stuck in a traffic jam".

We do, individual councils manage some of the roads, governments manage some as well.

I didn't realise that I paid a transit fee for moving between different council areas.  That must have slipped my notice.

You do in and out of London.

But a transit fee is not a sole indicator of that, I think you just been obtuse now.

CSI_Yorkshire

Chrysalis said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Chrysalis said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

QrizB said:

NorfolkCanary said:

Great way to save energy and be efficient /s

Even with the sarcasm tag, it looks like you've completely misunderstood the reason for the scheme.
This isn't about "saving energy" or "being efficient" it's about balancing the grid and saving everybody money.

It is necessary but nevertheless it is a bizarre way of balancing a Grid, and it is likely to get ‘worse’ as more renewables come on stream. We have to find a better way of managing supply and demand. Sadly, the wind doesn’t blow as strong in the areas that need the power as it does on the coast. That said, I cannot see the residents of London supporting a wind farm on Hampstead Heath.

My question is we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?

Is the future going to be energy will be cheaper in coastal areas?

The obvious thing for me getting battery capacity online that can handle excess energy from low demand periods.

Not unless you would also say that we have multiple road networks connected to each other.

This scheme is more like saying "shop local to avoid getting stuck in a traffic jam".

We do, individual councils manage some of the roads, governments manage some as well.

I didn't realise that I paid a transit fee for moving between different council areas.  That must have slipped my notice.

You do in and out of London.

But a transit fee is not a sole indicator of that, I think you just been obtuse now.

"we refer to it as "the" grid, but we have transit fee's for when energy is moved around, and now schemes like this which are localised, so is it more of a case we have multiple grids connected to each other?"

It was your point.

Chrysalis

It was a question, to me if its all one national grid, I think something like this wouldnt need to be localised.

But Octopus seem to have stated, they need to work with each regional operator.

Qyburn

Is there any chance we'll see the end of having to pay wind farms to shut down? Lots of new big schemes are at the planning stages, will their contracts include that benefit?

CSI_Yorkshire

Extremely unlikely.

Who would build a wind farm if they had a connection agreement that said "when it is windy and you could be generating maximum income, we can just tell you to turn off for no compensation"?

And even then, you would have to pay a different generator in a different place to turn on in many situations.

Balancing the system (and constraint management, which I suspect this scheme is to do with) will always cost money.  The question is where does that money go?

At the moment the money is spent on OPEX and goes mostly to generators.  This scheme effectively shifts some of the money from the generators to the customers.  Alternatively, as Dolor pointed out, you could spend the money on CAPEX instead, building more connections (to avoid constraints) and energy storage (to balance).

I seem to remember the rules set up at privatisation stopped network companies from owning anything that can generate for export - if this is still true it will still need to be some 3rd party owner (who would expect to make some sort of return).

[Deleted User]

The problem with renewables is that there needs to be significant over capacity if we are to get anywhere near 100% green energy as a given. The cost of renewables is increasing and we see more companies are pulling out of the UK. We also have a grid that is massively in need of a Victorian type rebuild. To complicate things further, MPs in fear of their seats are suggesting that we should put more of the grid into the sea or underground at somewhere between 4 and 10 times the cost of overland pylons.  The Government is also dithering when it comes to mini nuclear power stations - forgetting the fact that mariners in their 000s safely navigate the seas working above a nuclear reactor. I went to sea on a nuclear attack submarine in 1983!

It is also worth a mention that as a Country we are broke with an aging population (sorry), and a decreasing and unproductive workforce.