Chargeback - who decides?

t0rt0ise

I have just been told that my chargeback claim has been successful. What I don't understand is who eventually agreed to it. 

So I applied to my bank for chargeback. They agreed to help and contacted the other bank.
The company I'd bought the service from disagreed and said why.
I again put my case to my bank who said they'd tell the other bank again.
A week later my bank says success and I get my money.

So who would have made the final decision. Did the company simply give in, or did the company's bank overrule them, or would it be my bank simply doing it somehow anyway? 

MattMattMattUK

t0rt0ise said:

I have just been told that my chargeback claim has been successful. What I don't understand is who eventually agreed to it. 

So I applied to my bank for chargeback. They agreed to help and contacted the other bank.
The company I'd bought the service from disagreed and said why.
I again put my case to my bank who said they'd tell the other bank again.
A week later my bank says success and I get my money.

So who would have made the final decision. Did the company simply give in, or did the company's bank overrule them, or would it be my bank simply doing it somehow anyway? 

The company can submit a defence to the chargeback, the card provider may or may not agree. Remember that it is not a court, the decision has no legal standing, so the company can still pursue you by other means for the debt, whether they would win depends on the merits of the case.

DullGreyGuy

In the US at least it's the bank that issued the card that acts as the judge over if a contested chargeback should stand or be reversed. In certain cases where the parties still dispute it can go to the card network (eg Visa etc) to arbitrate with their decision being final. 

In the UK you'd imagine the process is similar but there will be the slight difference that as a consumer you could go to the Financial Ombudsman if you were unhappy with the outcome.

As warned above, your bank's decision carries no legal weight and so some people do find their bank sides with them and a few days later court papers arrive as the merchant is litigating to recover their monies.

born_again

t0rt0ise said:

I have just been told that my chargeback claim has been successful. What I don't understand is who eventually agreed to it. 

So I applied to my bank for chargeback. They agreed to help and contacted the other bank.
The company I'd bought the service from disagreed and said why.
I again put my case to my bank who said they'd tell the other bank again.
A week later my bank says success and I get my money.

So who would have made the final decision. Did the company simply give in, or did the company's bank overrule them, or would it be my bank simply doing it somehow anyway? 

In this type of case card provider Visa/Mastercard will decide the case.
When you go back & contest the retailer (pre-arbitration) It is out of yours or the retailers hands. Bit like going to court & where a jury sits & makes the decision.

t0rt0ise

born_again said:

t0rt0ise said:

I have just been told that my chargeback claim has been successful. What I don't understand is who eventually agreed to it. 

So I applied to my bank for chargeback. They agreed to help and contacted the other bank.
The company I'd bought the service from disagreed and said why.
I again put my case to my bank who said they'd tell the other bank again.
A week later my bank says success and I get my money.

So who would have made the final decision. Did the company simply give in, or did the company's bank overrule them, or would it be my bank simply doing it somehow anyway? 

In this type of case card provider Visa/Mastercard will decide the case.
When you go back & contest the retailer (pre-arbitration) It is out of yours or the retailers hands. Bit like going to court & where a jury sits & makes the decision.

Thank you. I hope that was the case. I am guessing that the seller knows they wouldn't win in court so won't now go that route. But we shall see.

[Deleted User]

DullGreyGuy said:

In the US at least it's the bank that issued the card that acts as the judge over if a contested chargeback should stand or be reversed. In certain cases where the parties still dispute it can go to the card network (eg Visa etc) to arbitrate with their decision being final. 

In the UK you'd imagine the process is similar but there will be the slight difference that as a consumer you could go to the Financial Ombudsman if you were unhappy with the outcome.

As warned above, your bank's decision carries no legal weight and so some people do find their bank sides with them and a few days later court papers arrive as the merchant is litigating to recover their monies.

Chargeback primarily involves the card issuer, card acquirer and card scheme. 
The FOS has zero involvement with chargebacks, so not sure why you're adding them in.

DullGreyGuy

[Deleted User] said:

DullGreyGuy said:

In the US at least it's the bank that issued the card that acts as the judge over if a contested chargeback should stand or be reversed. In certain cases where the parties still dispute it can go to the card network (eg Visa etc) to arbitrate with their decision being final. 

In the UK you'd imagine the process is similar but there will be the slight difference that as a consumer you could go to the Financial Ombudsman if you were unhappy with the outcome.

As warned above, your bank's decision carries no legal weight and so some people do find their bank sides with them and a few days later court papers arrive as the merchant is litigating to recover their monies.

Chargeback primarily involves the card issuer, card acquirer and card scheme. 
The FOS has zero involvement with chargebacks, so not sure why you're adding them in.

Because unlike in the US if you are unhappy with the decision on a chargeback you are entitled to complain to the FOS just like any other complaint you have about your financial services company. 

Chrysalis

As has been said the chargeback decision is just related to the financial transaction through the bank, it doesnt actually have any bearing if you owe the money to that company or not.

As I understand it, the bank makes the decision on whether a chargeback is issued or not.

[Deleted User]

DullGreyGuy said:

[Deleted User] said:

DullGreyGuy said:

In the US at least it's the bank that issued the card that acts as the judge over if a contested chargeback should stand or be reversed. In certain cases where the parties still dispute it can go to the card network (eg Visa etc) to arbitrate with their decision being final. 

In the UK you'd imagine the process is similar but there will be the slight difference that as a consumer you could go to the Financial Ombudsman if you were unhappy with the outcome.

As warned above, your bank's decision carries no legal weight and so some people do find their bank sides with them and a few days later court papers arrive as the merchant is litigating to recover their monies.

Chargeback primarily involves the card issuer, card acquirer and card scheme. 
The FOS has zero involvement with chargebacks, so not sure why you're adding them in.

Because unlike in the US if you are unhappy with the decision on a chargeback you are entitled to complain to the FOS just like any other complaint you have about your financial services company. 

You can complain if your card issuer didn't initiate a chargeback (and it was reasonable for them to do so) but you can't use the FOS to complain about the actual outcome.

You appear to be getting chargeback confused with S75 which is under the control of the card issuer. The card issuer doesn't have the final decision on a chargeback (it's the card scheme i.e. Visa, Mastercard or Amex).

DullGreyGuy

Depends what you mean by "initiate" @[Deleted User] ... to me that would be raising the matter and triggering the merchant bank to go to the merchant. Based on various cases on the Ombudsman's website their scope goes beyond this and like in the US the card issuer makes the first determination based on both side's evidence but based on strict card rules not a moral compass.

The Ombudsman in several cases, often involving investment fraud, have penalised that the issuer didn't handle this later part of the case properly after getting the merchant's defence and have awarded compensation. In the couple of cases seen the ombudsman agreed the outcome is unlikely or too hard to judge that it would have been to the customers favour so wasn't a full refund. The fact they comment on the prospects of success clearly shows that in other cases they may award full refund if the issuer rules against their customer after receiving the merchant's defence and so doesn't go to scheme arbitration. 

So yes, I stand by my statement that if your bank rules against you on Chargebacks, no S75, that you can complain to the Ombudsman beyond the initial raising of the case.