PIP for ADHD - anxiety

Chablar

Hey again, sorry for the post dump. 

I would read through the post I put up earlier. You may find it reassuring understanding the systems behind how the DWP score PIP. 

Here is a quote:

"Health conditions or disabilities may be physical, sensory, mental, intellectual or cognitive, or any combination of these"

The one thing that always stuck with me is the idea of reliability. Here is a quote again"

"For a descriptor to apply to a claimant they must be able to reliably complete the activity as described in the descriptor. Reliably means whether they can do so:

• safely – in a manner unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity
• to an acceptable standard
• repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required, and
• in a reasonable time period – no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a non-disabled person would normally take to complete that activity"

This is obviously a bit one for my wife, who has terrible anxiety and very little energy on a daily basis. Technically she could wash up, or socialise or cook. However she couldn't do it safely (panic attacks, exhaustion afterwards), she may make mistakes,  she couldn't do these things as many times as needed and it would often take an overly long time, she would need breaks etc. Not to mention sometimes the task couldn't even be managed. 

RoisinDubh_2

Chablar said:

RoisinDubh_2 said:

I'm a bit confused about how a "paper based assessment" works. I'm already working myself up about a phone assessment and really struggled even on the phone call to get the form sent out. Has anyone had one and would I be very disadvantaged by asking for this?

My wife has had 2, theyve both been successful. She has anxiety so bad she sometimes can't leave the house. I have to go with her to every appointment. Big assessments from PIP and even doctors appointments can also leave her exhausted for days afterwards (a chronic fatigue symptom). 

She's been seeing a doctor for years about these things, so there's a pretty hefty paper of doctors appointments, notes, prescriptions etc to support the PIP assessment. We also see the same doctor every time (to help with her anxiety) so when they wrote to this doctor for her opinion on my wife's ailments she's quite familiar with how they affect her. 

It completely depends on your situation.
How long have you been seeing medical professionals for for the conditions you are applying for PIP with? Do you have a familiar GP?  If so there could be a wealth of information there they can access without putting you through the stress of an assessment. 

It's tough to say for sure without knowing your specific situation. All I can say is the paper assessment was definitely the right choice for us.

No, I don't have a familiar GP, but that's not really my fault. I've moved around a lot and found the NHS so lacking that most care has been private, e.g. therapy. I only tend to see the NHS about physical ailments. I'm under the care of a psychiatrist right now and will be providing evidence from them and giving contact details. I'm not sure if this will be enough. 

I'm worried about the assessment because being autistic, I'm not good at sensing when I'm being kind of goaded into saying something that can be used against me. If someone were to ask me a leading question, I'd probably fall into the trap, because I mask to seem agreeable. I need time to think clearly and to formulate answers, so anything where I'm expected to think on my feet is my definition inaccessible to me. When I apply for job interviews, I get all the questions in advance as a reasonable adjustment, for example. Would I need to explain why I feel I need a paper based assessment and if so, how do I do that?

RoisinDubh_2

"As the assessment will consider a claimant’s ability to carry out the activities, an inability to carry out activities must be due to the effects of a health condition or disability and not simply a matter of preference by the claimant."

This is what I'm struggling with, and it feels hard to explain. I find in everyday life that neurotypical people always act like it's a matter of preference, because technically yes, I can do almost anything if I truly absolutely have to, but the effects of doing it can be really damaging to my mental health. 

It feels so subjective - like how can they possibly know what I experience? I just went out this morning for a vaccination I needed, and managed a little walk around before getting the train back, so it looks like I'm a functioning independent adult, however, I had to spend over an hour planning for the (simple) journey, looking at every option on Google Maps, checking my phone even to walk down a straight road, then on the train I got very distressed when a lady didn't understand why I wanted the outside seat on the train and tried to trap me in the window seat (I'm badly claustrophobic) and was rude, and this caused an anxiety spiral. I had one single thing to do all day, and I came home and slept for four hours afterwards because I was so exhausted, and the evening is a write-off. This is really typical for me but I don't know if they'd consider this important because technically I achieved the thing I needed to do?

Spoonie_Turtle

RoisinDubh_2 said:

"As the assessment will consider a claimant’s ability to carry out the activities, an inability to carry out activities must be due to the effects of a health condition or disability and not simply a matter of preference by the claimant."

This is what I'm struggling with, and it feels hard to explain. I find in everyday life that neurotypical people always act like it's a matter of preference, because technically yes, I can do almost anything if I truly absolutely have to, but the effects of doing it can be really damaging to my mental health. 

It feels so subjective - like how can they possibly know what I experience? I just went out this morning for a vaccination I needed, and managed a little walk around before getting the train back, so it looks like I'm a functioning independent adult, however, I had to spend over an hour planning for the (simple) journey, looking at every option on Google Maps, checking my phone even to walk down a straight road, then on the train I got very distressed when a lady didn't understand why I wanted the outside seat on the train and tried to trap me in the window seat (I'm badly claustrophobic) and was rude, and this caused an anxiety spiral. I had one single thing to do all day, and I came home and slept for four hours afterwards because I was so exhausted, and the evening is a write-off. This is really typical for me but I don't know if they'd consider this important because technically I achieved the thing I needed to do?

You tell them, just like you're doing here

On a very very literal level, yes it's a preference not to do stuff that makes you feel absolutely awful and wipe you out.  But that's not what that means.  For PIP a preference would be what you choose to do, unrelated to your disability/ies.  For instance, a preference could be if someone decided only to eat twice a day as a dietary choice, rather than the three meals (plus maybe snacks) that is the societal norm.  But for someone who forgets to eat or has anxiety about any aspect of preparing and/or eating food, only eating twice a day because they don't have the help they need would not be a preference. 
Or another preference might be having someone to drive them everywhere because it's convenient, whereas for someone who finds it difficult/exhausting to plan and/or follow journeys, being driven everywhere may be a need in order to not be absolutely wiped out from it.

So for preference, think along the lines of 'they could do it just fine - repeatedly, reliably, safely, etc. - and just choose not to'. 
Whereas if it's help you NEED to be able to reliably do things without being wiped out (or you simply cannot do them reliably because there is no help to facilitate that) then it's not a preference, it's a limitation imposed upon you by the effects of your disability/ies.

"but the effects of doing it can be really damaging to my mental health." - this is what you need to emphasise.  Repeat yourself as often as necessary, even if it's multiple times for every relevant activity.

RoisinDubh_2

Thank you - got it.

I've been doing some research on other forums, and someone who claims to be an assessor says they will hold things against you, for example, if you say you hardly ever leave the house because of anxiety but then they ring you and get a foreign dial tone. This worries me as I do travel a bit - it's pretty much the only non-essential thing I do at the moment. I save every penny and spend months planning and then book at the last minute when I know I'm well enough (mentally) to handle it. I have special assistance at the airport and the gate such as priority boarding and sometimes someone walking me through security. I usually contact the arrival airport for anywhere outside Europe and ask about accessibility and what I can expect to be asked at immigration and how long I can expect the process to take, so I can mentally prepare. The airlines I fly with have me down as a disabled passenger and allow me to select seats free of charge that suit my disability (such as back of plane, quietest bit of plane, window seat). I sometimes get escorted through the Accessibility line by airport staff on arrival. So for me, it's not as simple as booking a flight and hopping on it, I have to jump through a lot of hoops, do weeks of mental prep and ask for a lot of support.

Something like travel is actually easier for me than going to an event locally or going to a party, as it's so predictable - I can put all these coping mechanisms into place and have a checklist of what to do and where to go. I cope much better when there are 'rules' and things are documented.

How should I address this? Should I word it as I have here? 

Muttleythefrog

RoisinDubh_2 said:

Thank you - got it.

I've been doing some research on other forums, and someone who claims to be an assessor says they will hold things against you, for example, if you say you hardly ever leave the house because of anxiety but then they ring you and get a foreign dial tone. This worries me as I do travel a bit - it's pretty much the only non-essential thing I do at the moment. I save every penny and spend months planning and then book at the last minute when I know I'm well enough (mentally) to handle it. I have special assistance at the airport and the gate such as priority boarding and sometimes someone walking me through security. I usually contact the arrival airport for anywhere outside Europe and ask about accessibility and what I can expect to be asked at immigration and how long I can expect the process to take, so I can mentally prepare. The airlines I fly with have me down as a disabled passenger and allow me to select seats free of charge that suit my disability (such as back of plane, quietest bit of plane, window seat). I sometimes get escorted through the Accessibility line by airport staff on arrival. So for me, it's not as simple as booking a flight and hopping on it, I have to jump through a lot of hoops, do weeks of mental prep and ask for a lot of support.

Something like travel is actually easier for me than going to an event locally or going to a party, as it's so predictable - I can put all these coping mechanisms into place and have a checklist of what to do and where to go. I cope much better when there are 'rules' and things are documented.

How should I address this? Should I word it as I have here? 

Some very good advice and pointers on the thread. I would say don't focus too much on holidays as these are not typical experiences of day to day life but only raise such if they have great value to explaining your disabilities in relation to a particular activity (and try not to lose focus of the activity in front of you). If they raise holidays in an assessment then you can go into further details. 

Unfortunately... and I have to be blunt... the assessments (and DWP decisions) are not particularly scientific or oriented for accuracy. Sadly assessors, not all, can and do take basic information and extrapolate it beyond any reasonable sense (a former assessor on this board gives examples)... and worse sometimes that information is misleading or wrong in the first place. Many applicants do find the process difficult and outcomes unacceptably inaccurate but the appeals process can resolve a lot of the errors in the system. Getting the initial information and any evidence to them for claim is very important to hopefully setting a course of a correct award but it can be hit and miss.... do invest the efforts you are doing but try not to obsess to the point you cannot stop expanding on difficulties for activities. Ideally keep everything in electronic form for re-use and reference.

RoisinDubh_2

Muttleythefrog said:

RoisinDubh_2 said:

Thank you - got it.

I've been doing some research on other forums, and someone who claims to be an assessor says they will hold things against you, for example, if you say you hardly ever leave the house because of anxiety but then they ring you and get a foreign dial tone. This worries me as I do travel a bit - it's pretty much the only non-essential thing I do at the moment. I save every penny and spend months planning and then book at the last minute when I know I'm well enough (mentally) to handle it. I have special assistance at the airport and the gate such as priority boarding and sometimes someone walking me through security. I usually contact the arrival airport for anywhere outside Europe and ask about accessibility and what I can expect to be asked at immigration and how long I can expect the process to take, so I can mentally prepare. The airlines I fly with have me down as a disabled passenger and allow me to select seats free of charge that suit my disability (such as back of plane, quietest bit of plane, window seat). I sometimes get escorted through the Accessibility line by airport staff on arrival. So for me, it's not as simple as booking a flight and hopping on it, I have to jump through a lot of hoops, do weeks of mental prep and ask for a lot of support.

Something like travel is actually easier for me than going to an event locally or going to a party, as it's so predictable - I can put all these coping mechanisms into place and have a checklist of what to do and where to go. I cope much better when there are 'rules' and things are documented.

How should I address this? Should I word it as I have here? 

Some very good advice and pointers on the thread. I would say don't focus too much on holidays as these are not typical experiences of day to day life but only raise such if they have great value to explaining your disabilities in relation to a particular activity (and try not to lose focus of the activity in front of you). If they raise holidays in an assessment then you can go into further details. 

Unfortunately... and I have to be blunt... the assessments (and DWP decisions) are not particularly scientific or oriented for accuracy. Sadly assessors, not all, can and do take basic information and extrapolate it beyond any reasonable sense (a former assessor on this board gives examples)... and worse sometimes that information is misleading or wrong in the first place. Many applicants do find the process difficult and outcomes unacceptably inaccurate but the appeals process can resolve a lot of the errors in the system. Getting the initial information and any evidence to them for claim is very important to hopefully setting a course of a correct award but it can be hit and miss.... do invest the efforts you are doing but try not to obsess to the point you cannot stop expanding on difficulties for activities. Ideally keep everything in electronic form for re-use and reference.

Thanks! I was more just worried about the foreign dial tone (because sods law would have it they'd ring during my week away) and what they'd extrapolate from that, but it's not illegal to go on holiday. I guess I could always just talk about that if they ask. 

RoisinDubh_2

Thanks for everyone's help. I have almost completed my form now. I'm just wondering if it's beneficial to me to include my GP details if I don't actually ever see the same GP? I see different people every time, and I haven't really dealt with them for my ADHD or anxiety recently at all. Could I just put my psychiatrist details or would that look weird? 

PixelPound

Put the main doctor of your practice and put your psychiatrist. If your psychiatrist has sent you letters or copies of reports to your GP, these are good evidence. 

Chablar

RoisinDubh_2 said:

Thanks for everyone's help. I have almost completed my form now. I'm just wondering if it's beneficial to me to include my GP details if I don't actually ever see the same GP? I see different people every time, and I haven't really dealt with them for my ADHD or anxiety recently at all. Could I just put my psychiatrist details or would that look weird? 

It would probably look weird if you don't include GP details. But just do what you've done here. On the GP part put in capital letters PLEASE SEE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. Then on the additional information part nearer the end where you can add whatever you want to elaborate in things just put what you've told us. Tell them your GP won't know too much about it and if they want the most detail from the person with the most experience with you they should ask your psychiatrist.