DFS refuse to refund a sofa we cannot use due to mis selling. What are our rights?

Gavin83

tightauldgit said:

Jumblebumble said:

Alderbank said:

Just to clarify, you found a sofa in the shop which was soft enough for your needs and therefore decided to buy two of that model.
The salesperson was aware of your specific requirement.
The sofas you eventually received differed from the model you were shown in the shop.

There are two faults here, they do not conform to the model you were shown and they do not conform to your specific requirements which were agreed with the shop.

Tell the shop you are rejecting them as is your right under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because the goods are in breach of Section 10: Goods to be fit for particular purpose and Section 14: Goods to match a model seen or examined

May I observe that these are not proven faults but are alleged faults which the shop are likely  to vigorously defend by telling the court that the OP tried out the sofa in the shop and then bought the same ones and that they cannot understand the problem.

Going by the OP the shop have admitted that the sofa supplied does not match the sofa tried out but have said it requires bedding in. Something that wasn't apparently told to the customer when they sold them a 'soft' sofa.  

A few people have mentioned this but I can't see anything along these lines in the OP. As far as I can see the sofa they received is the same sofa as the one in the shop.

I agree with a few of the others here. I can't see how these sofas are faulty in any way nor do I think you've got a strong case. You can of course complain and write a LBA but were this to go to court I don't really fancy your chances. I also expect DFS to fight this all the way and in all honesty I can't really blame them.

I'm not really sure you will find a new sofa that'll fit your needs as they'll all need a certain amount of bedding in and any that didn't likely wouldn't last very long. You might be better off looking at used sofas in the future.

RefluentBeans

I agree that ‘softness’ can be measured. The OP has stated that the display sofa was stained, so I assume probably fairly old. I think the average person expects that the sofa will get softer over time, and so measuring the ‘softness’ of something should be done on a near identical sofa in a near identical condition - meaning in this case new. If I tried a pair of Doc Martens in their store that was a display model (and thus tried on by lots of people) the leather will be softened by wear, but when I get home my Docs cause blisters - they missold me, right? Well no - the shoes there were demo shoes and a reasonable expectation would be that the new shoes would be stiffer than the worn shoes. 

If they said the sofa was going to be as soft as this sofa right now then I agree that it’s missold. But if they say it’s the exact same sofa made from the exact same materials then, even if that response was in answering the question ‘will the new sofa be as soft this sofa here’, they didn’t say anything other than facts. Didn’t say it would be or wouldn’t be. If they did say it would be as soft as that sofa right out of the box, then yes it was missold but I’m guessing it wasn’t recorded and is a he said she said situation from a conversation from months ago. 

I also agree that soft, stiff, hard, flexible etc are all subjective terms, and so the argument of this isn’t soft won’t have much weight I don’t think. 

In any measure, if you’ve sent a LBA, and they’ve sent you their response then they’re done engaging with you as they feel you’ve rejected all other offers now. The next step is to take it court and let a judge decide how it goes. From what you’ve said, it seems like a LBA was used as a negotiation tactic. Unfortunately I think it was maybe too early, and you’ve shut the conversation down now, so got to take it to court (or whatever action you said you were going to take) and prepare for that. 

PHK

Just to point out that sofas are made harder than expected precisely because they do soften over time.this is why manufacturers recommend that at least for the first few months the seats are rotated (using each seat in rotation rather than sitting on a favoured seat) precisely so that this wear occurs evenly.

I agree with the poster above who suggested the sale shouldn't have been made. Most furniture shops do not sell furniture for those with specific medical requirements. There are speciist suppliers who will make sure the furniture is both supportive and comfortable.  (It's support that's important not softness)

I think the OP stands a better chance of arguing that it shouldn't have been sold and is unsuitable rather than that it is too soft. 

MattMattMattUK

RefluentBeans said:

I agree that ‘softness’ can be measured. 

It can, but not in a way that is easily explained to the average person. Deflection in response to weight, short term, long term etc. it is also not a linear curve, so softness can appear subjective, foam that someone soft to someone who is eight stone will collapse entirely under the weight of someone who is eighteen stone, the reverse is also true, soft to the eighteen stone person would be hard to the eight stone person. This can often be an issue with mattresses, men generally prefer firmer mattresses because they are heavier, where as a light person, more often than not a woman would find a firm mattress too hard. 

strawb_shortcake

When we bought our sofa from DFS fairly recently, we still had to configure the sofa to our specifications. It was made clear that the shop display ones were of a higher standard than what was on the shop floor price.

2 types of cushions were available, foam (cheapest and presumably softer) then the firmer option (can't remember the term) but had greater durability. 

Same as when we bought our first leather sofa the leather grade was higher in store than what we purchased. 

I'm not convinced what you try in store will give a complete reflection of what you'll receive on ordering due to wear and usage over an unknown amount of time

Redfairy

RefluentBeans said:

I agree that ‘softness’ can be measured. The OP has stated that the display sofa was stained, so I assume probably fairly old. I think the average person expects that the sofa will get softer over time, and so measuring the ‘softness’ of something should be done on a near identical sofa in a near identical condition - meaning in this case new. If I tried a pair of Doc Martens in their store that was a display model (and thus tried on by lots of people) the leather will be softened by wear, but when I get home my Docs cause blisters - they missold me, right? Well no - the shoes there were demo shoes and a reasonable expectation would be that the new shoes would be stiffer than the worn shoes. 

If they said the sofa was going to be as soft as this sofa right now then I agree that it’s missold. But if they say it’s the exact same sofa made from the exact same materials then, even if that response was in answering the question ‘will the new sofa be as soft this sofa here’, they didn’t say anything other than facts. Didn’t say it would be or wouldn’t be. If they did say it would be as soft as that sofa right out of the box, then yes it was missold but I’m guessing it wasn’t recorded and is a he said she said situation from a conversation from months ago. 

I also agree that soft, stiff, hard, flexible etc are all subjective terms, and so the argument of this isn’t soft won’t have much weight I don’t think. 

In any measure, if you’ve sent a LBA, and they’ve sent you their response then they’re done engaging with you as they feel you’ve rejected all other offers now. The next step is to take it court and let a judge decide how it goes. From what you’ve said, it seems like a LBA was used as a negotiation tactic. Unfortunately I think it was maybe too early, and you’ve shut the conversation down now, so got to take it to court (or whatever action you said you were going to take) and prepare for that. 

RefluentBeans said:

I agree that ‘softness’ can be measured. The OP has stated that the display sofa was stained, so I assume probably fairly old. I think the average person expects that the sofa will get softer over time, and so measuring the ‘softness’ of something should be done on a near identical sofa in a near identical condition - meaning in this case new. If I tried a pair of Doc Martens in their store that was a display model (and thus tried on by lots of people) the leather will be softened by wear, but when I get home my Docs cause blisters - they missold me, right? Well no - the shoes there were demo shoes and a reasonable expectation would be that the new shoes would be stiffer than the worn shoes. 

If they said the sofa was going to be as soft as this sofa right now then I agree that it’s missold. But if they say it’s the exact same sofa made from the exact same materials then, even if that response was in answering the question ‘will the new sofa be as soft this sofa here’, they didn’t say anything other than facts. Didn’t say it would be or wouldn’t be. If they did say it would be as soft as that sofa right out of the box, then yes it was missold but I’m guessing it wasn’t recorded and is a he said she said situation from a conversation from months ago. 

I also agree that soft, stiff, hard, flexible etc are all subjective terms, and so the argument of this isn’t soft won’t have much weight I don’t think. 

In any measure, if you’ve sent a LBA, and they’ve sent you their response then they’re done engaging with you as they feel you’ve rejected all other offers now. The next step is to take it court and let a judge decide how it goes. From what you’ve said, it seems like a LBA was used as a negotiation tactic. Unfortunately I think it was maybe too early, and you’ve shut the conversation down now, so got to take it to court (or whatever action you said you were going to take) and prepare for that. 

Hi, we stated in the sales talk that we wanted a sofa exactly like the one we were sitting on. We talked about my spine problems. At no point were we told we would have to bed it in. We haven't bought a sofa in 20years and although , yes it may soften with use, we were clearly expecting that level of comfort from day 1, and the sale was based on this. What DFS seem to be doing is treating me like an average person, who just needs to get on with it, and sit on it till its soft.  I only managed a couple of hours on it the first day it was delivered, and consequently my back was worse for a day afterwards. Nowhere in the order paperwork does it state that it will need bedding in. Also the model could have been new in the shop, who is to say it was old. It was cream and the stains may have been caused by careless customers trying it out, or children playing on it. The point is that DFS at no point told us we would not receive an identical sofa.  They have breached our rights by refusing our right to refuse. We cannot be expected to know every possible detail about new sofas unless they , the experts,  tell us. We have been trying every way to resolve this since March and I do not think we have used the LPA too soon, or that it was a game tactic. I just want this sorting out as I feel that we have been ignored. I have posted to this forum for help on this matter to see if it can be resolved without going to court, or if there is something I am unaware about. Thank you for all your help and advice.

soolin

Unfortunately as has been said it looks like your only option is to take them to court as per your LBA. I realise that you have said that will cause you more stress , but I honestly can’t see where else you can go with this now, I can’t see them suddenly turning round and accepting them back for a full refund.

What your chances are at court is difficult to say, it might help to pay for an independent view comparing the sofa you saw with the one you have, but that depends on whether the shop model is still on the shop floor, and of course whether you can find an ‘expert’ that you can afford. 

Before you put yourself through more stress are there any practical changes, adding a soft cushion for instance that might make the sofa more suitable for you? 

Lastly if you do manage to get these taken back, or replace them anyway, then look at one of the specialist companies that deal with medical needs. It certainly won’t be cheap but often they can make something with a lot more choice as to size and softness, my MIL had a chair made for her to her exact specs. 

Ksw3

We bought our sofa from DFS and was told at least 4 times that our choice of filling would result in a different feel (fibre starts soft but ends up hard and foam starts firm and ends up soft), that they change overtime and we were absolutely sure we wanted the fibre filling. The delivery driver went through it all again and gave us a leaflet about how fibre filling needs daily plumping in order to retain its softness. 

The DFS store you went to sounds abysmal but I also think that it was highly unlikely that a brand new sofa would be similar to a worn one in the store. We have a new sofa and a 20 year old sofa as I fear like shoes, the really comfy ones are hard to let go. 

Redfairy

soolin said:

Unfortunately as has been said it looks like your only option is to take them to court as per your LBA. I realise that you have said that will cause you more stress , but I honestly can’t see where else you can go with this now, I can’t see them suddenly turning round and accepting them back for a full refund.

What your chances are at court is difficult to say, it might help to pay for an independent view comparing the sofa you saw with the one you have, but that depends on whether the shop model is still on the shop floor, and of course whether you can find an ‘expert’ that you can afford. 

Before you put yourself through more stress are there any practical changes, adding a soft cushion for instance that might make the sofa more suitable for you? 

Lastly if you do manage to get these taken back, or replace them anyway, then look at one of the specialist companies that deal with medical needs. It certainly won’t be cheap but often they can make something with a lot more choice as to size and softness, my MIL had a chair made for her to her exact specs. 

Thank you thats helpful I will look into it. We have tried adapting the sofas so I can use it but no joy. 

theaxeman

I have recently looked in DFS and I did notice a poster on the wall that said "Choose your comfort, size, shape and fabric". I would have thought it hard to choose your comfort if what you actually receive is different to what you sit on in the store. Perhaps, it should say, comfort (after a few months bedding in). 

Apart from that, perhaps maybe cut your losses, try and sell it for as much as possible.