Cracks in bay window

Crystal_dreamer86

Hi, 

Hoping for some advice, we moved into our 1930s house about 18 months ago, it has a 2 storey bay at the front. After removing the wallpaper in the master bedroom to decorate, we've discovered 2 large cracks either side of the bay where ot meets the main walls of the house (see photos attached). These weren't apparent when we had the survey done, so not sure when they appeared as was behind thick wallpaper. They are roughly the same both sides, and when looking on the outside from the window, can see cracks in the pebble dash both sides opposite the internal cracks. From my research it looks like the bay maybe coming away from the house. What options do we have in terms of getting this repaired? Is it a rebuild job? Do i get a serveyor in to look at it, contact builder's for quotes/opinion, or can it be claimed in the house insurance? Thanks in advance nevere dealt with anything like this before so any thoughts kr tios greatly appreciated 😊

stuart45

Can happen when a timber bay window is replaced with plastic.

Seol88

What's it like above the window? Does the crack continue? 

The fact that there's stepped cracks around the bricks and that you have reciprocal cracks inside and out would suggest that the bay may be tipping away from the house. This often happens on older houses where the foundations or footings of the bay were not built to the same depth as the main house.

It could be very costly to rectify and I would be considering the insurance route. It's a bit of a catch-22 as a subsidence claim will make your premiums rise substantially and can make it difficult to switch insurer down the line, though more and more insurers are recognizing bay subsidence as a less serious issue now.

You could seek the opinion of a Structural Engineer to confirm that is is subsidence, would cost a few hundred pounds and give you an idea of the scope of work required to repair.

FreeBear

Seol88 said: It could be very costly to rectify and I would be considering the insurance route. It's a bit of a catch-22 as a subsidence claim will make your premiums rise substantially and can make it difficult to switch insurer down the line, though more and more insurers are recognizing bay subsidence as a less serious issue now.

The insurers may decide that it was a pre-existing fault and refuse cover. To my eye, the cracks don't look particularly fresh, and if they had been hidden by wallpaper, that would suggest that they have been there for some time.

Seol88

FreeBear said:

Seol88 said: It could be very costly to rectify and I would be considering the insurance route. It's a bit of a catch-22 as a subsidence claim will make your premiums rise substantially and can make it difficult to switch insurer down the line, though more and more insurers are recognizing bay subsidence as a less serious issue now.

The insurers may decide that it was a pre-existing fault and refuse cover. To my eye, the cracks don't look particularly fresh, and if they had been hidden by wallpaper, that would suggest that they have been there for some time.

I was thinking that as well but would need to be declared in any event.

marlot

If the ground floor bay is OK, then it might be that timber ground floor windows were replaced with UPVC without any strengthening added above the windows.

https://www.doubleglazingblogger.com/2016/02/the-guidance-on-lintels-needs-to-be-a-lot-clearer/

Section62

Seol88 said:

It could be very costly to rectify and I would be considering the insurance route.

Not necessarily "very costly". It really depends on how substantial the bay is, how much of it is 'solid', and what the roof arrangements are. As you note, there are downsides to having to make an insurance claim.

OP, can you post a picture of the outside of the bay from ground to roof level to give us an idea of the overall size and construction.  The initial impression from your pictures is the bay is pulling away from the main wall fairly cleanly, which might suggest it was never tied in properly.  Is the inside face/leaf of the wall block rather than brick?

Bays are often lightweight construction, sometimes with only a single brick (~4") wall.  Some people find these tend to make rooms cold and difficult to heat, so might take an opportunity (budget permitting) of having the bay rebuilt using more thermally efficient methods, regardless of any concerns about possible historic cracking that might be discovered during the building work.  In your case as the external finish is pebbledash there are some options available to you which would be less feasible if the existing bay was a feature and done in facing bricks.

stuart45

The foundations on a double bay were usually the same depth as the house. It's normally on a single storey bay where they skimped.
Getting a good tie in the brickwork is harder with a squint angled bay than a square one.
You can have restraint straps fixed to the brickwork.

Crystal_dreamer86

Seol88 said:

What's it like above the window? Does the crack continue? 

The fact that there's stepped cracks around the bricks and that you have reciprocal cracks inside and out would suggest that the bay may be tipping away from the house. This often happens on older houses where the foundations or footings of the bay were not built to the same depth as the main house.

It could be very costly to rectify and I would be considering the insurance route. It's a bit of a catch-22 as a subsidence claim will make your premiums rise substantially and can make it difficult to switch insurer down the line, though more and more insurers are recognizing bay subsidence as a less serious issue now.

You could seek the opinion of a Structural Engineer to confirm that is is subsidence, would cost a few hundred pounds and give you an idea of the scope of work required to repair.

There is some cracking above the window, which before we bought the house, we thought was just blown plaster as it the original lime snd horse hair plaster. This was mentioned to the surveyor prior to the inspection and tested for damp, but was not flagged as any concern. 

Crystal_dreamer86

Section62 said:

Seol88 said:

It could be very costly to rectify and I would be considering the insurance route.

Not necessarily "very costly". It really depends on how substantial the bay is, how much of it is 'solid', and what the roof arrangements are. As you note, there are downsides to having to make an insurance claim.

OP, can you post a picture of the outside of the bay from ground to roof level to give us an idea of the overall size and construction.  The initial impression from your pictures is the bay is pulling away from the main wall fairly cleanly, which might suggest it was never tied in properly.  Is the inside face/leaf of the wall block rather than brick?

Bays are often lightweight construction, sometimes with only a single brick (~4") wall.  Some people find these tend to make rooms cold and difficult to heat, so might take an opportunity (budget permitting) of having the bay rebuilt using more thermally efficient methods, regardless of any concerns about possible historic cracking that might be discovered during the building work.  In your case as the external finish is pebbledash there are some options available to you which would be less feasible if the existing bay was a feature and done in facing bricks.

It's a 2 storey bay with a roof as seen in the picture below. The window looks to hsve been changed in 2018, can't find paper work regarding the downstairs window to see when that was changed, as I wondered about the potential extra support perhaps not being put in place when changed.
Yes, it does get pretty cold in winter, I'm not sure what the brick is like behind the plaster, think its single skin brick. Will no doubt have the plaster off at some point.

There is also cracking on the outside around the window, pics below, in the pebble dash, the crack below the window was noted in the servey we had done when we bought the house, but it was stated that this was a crack in the pebble dash.  

FreeBear

The detailing between the lower & upper half of your house looks very similar to mine - The corbelled brick and row of pin tiles suggests cavity walls on the lower half, and solid 9" brick on the upper half. The wall of the bay upstairs might be a lightweight stud wall with lath & render on the outside and lath & plaster internally. If so, great, as it means it shouldn't be as costly to repair/rebuild and you can fill the void with insulation. if it is solid brick, then fix a good layer of Celotex or insulated plasterboard on the inside (minimum of 75mm).

As for the windows - There should be some structural supports running up between each window section. This could either be steel or aluminium so a metal detector should pick them up.. If this support is absent, then you'll need to get a window installer to put the necessary posts in (might require new windows...) That should stop any further movement of the wall/roof above.