Notice period rent

User897

Hello everyone,

I’ve just come on here to seek some advice regarding a current rent dispute I have.

Our fallout with the landlord started in June, when they wanted to increase the rent above the contracted limit (limit was 5% landlord wanted to raise the rent by 8.5 / 9%). The answer given by the letting agent when this was raised was that it wasn’t a breach of contract, and that the landlord could simply run down the existing contract and rewrite her conditions in to a new one.

After this dispute, we were asked if we wanted to renew our tenancy. We asked if we could have until the end of the month to make a decision, and that either way she would have a required decision before 31 days before the end of tenancy, as specified in the contract.

The landlord gave us 5 days, then ‘did not want to wait’ any longer so served notice for us to be out the property. The notice was served on 13/06. Our contract was set to run out 29/7. Due to having to give two months notice, the landlords notice period ended 14/08.

We vacated the property 26/06 and handed the keys back to the estate agent. I thought this would just be the end of the tenancy, and that we had vacated within the requested notice period.

I then got an email from the estate agent credit control over the last few days, saying I owed £366 rent. I queried this, and they have said I owe rent for up until the end of the landlords notice period (14/08), as well as covering utility usage at the property during this time. To me this seems completely wrong, as the landlord has served the notice under her own steam. By serving the notice, it seems she’s extended the tenancy by two weeks, without us getting a say in the matter. We never signed any contractual agreement regarding any extension, the last tenancy contract I signed shows the tenancy ending on 29/07.

I’ve tried contacting citizens advice but can’t get through. I want to know what legal position I’m in with monies owed, and also the utility usage. On top of this, I know that although the estate agents are saying we are responsible for the property until 14/08, three days after the keys were handed back work was carried out on the property. I was not consulted about this, our contract says that as tenants the landlord needs to give 24 hours before entering to conduct any repairs.

To me it seems the landlord is both having her cake and eating it. I would appreciate any advice on this forum, any property gurus in particular!

Thank you

CSI_Yorkshire

The period of the tenancy contract ended, but the tenancy itself didn't.  There didn't need to be any signing of a contractual agreement for it to continue past 29/07.  A tenancy only ends when the tenant serves or accepts notice to end, or through a court.

You didn't serve any notice on your landlord to end the tenancy and by vacating you have effectively accepted the landlords notice to end the tenancy on 14/08.

Your tenancy, therefore, ends on 14/08 and you are liable for the rent until that date.

doodling

Hi,

All of the below is on the assumption the the tenant was renting in England and was in a fixed term that ended on 29/07/2023.

CSI_Yorkshire said:

The period of the tenancy contract ended, but the tenancy itself didn't.  There didn't need to be any signing of a contractual agreement for it to continue past 29/07.  A tenancy only ends when the tenant serves or accepts notice to end, or through a court.

The tenant "acceping" notice has no effect.  On the other hand, leaving at the end of the fixed term and expressing a desire for the tenancy to end at that point will also end the tenancy, no notice required (to end the tenancy).

You didn't serve any notice on your landlord to end the tenancy and by vacating you have effectively accepted the landlords notice to end the tenancy on 14/08.

Your tenancy, therefore, ends on 14/08 and you are liable for the rent until that date.

Not at all, the tenancy ended (at the latest) at the end of the fixed term.  Any date given by the landlord is completely irrelevant.

The fact that the landlord entered the property after the keys were returned could be taken as agreement of an early surrender although the absence of any corresponding financial arrangement doesn't help the OP if they wanted to argue that they shouldn't have paid the last month's rent of the fixed term.  Arguably it does help the tenant with respect to when they ceased to be liable for utilities but whether the OP wants that fight or is willing to pay until the end of the fixed term is up to them.

Some landlords like to put notice requirements in the contract for ending the tenancy at the end of the fixed term.  They are pretty much unenforceable with respect to when the tenancy ends but may (emphasis on the 'may') be enforceable with respect to the cost of any void period suffered by the landlord as a result of the tenant just leaving at the end of the fixed term. In this case, the landlord, by expressing a desire for the tenant to leave by giving notice stands no chance of enforcing any such clause.

MultiFuelBurner

With the little information supplied.

On the face of it you could be liable for rent until 14/08.

You seem to suggest you had a 12 month AST ending 29/07 but didn't serve notice for that date so the notice is the day supplied by the LL(which may or may not have been valid but that shop has sailed)

Out of interest why did you leave early? Do you know if new tenants are already in the property?

GrumpyDil

If you moved out before or on the last day of the fixed term then my interpretation is that the tenancy ended at that point, although your dates look odd as you say you moved out on 26/06 buy your tenancy ended on 29/07.

So if you have paid up to 29/07 then I'd say you are covered (assuming you definately had a fixed term tenancy at that point). 

You would also be liable to pay for the utilities and council tax up to the end of your tenancy but not after. 

CSI_Yorkshire

doodling said:

Hi,

All of the below is on the assumption the the tenant was renting in England and was in a fixed term that ended on 29/07/2023.

CSI_Yorkshire said:

The period of the tenancy contract ended, but the tenancy itself didn't.  There didn't need to be any signing of a contractual agreement for it to continue past 29/07.  A tenancy only ends when the tenant serves or accepts notice to end, or through a court.

The tenant "acceping" notice has no effect.  On the other hand, leaving at the end of the fixed term and expressing a desire for the tenancy to end at that point will also end the tenancy, no notice required (to end the tenancy)..

You know that I meant 'accepting ' by moving out, although signing an early termination agreement or similar would also work.

Just like I know you don't actually think that simply handing the keys back immediately ends a tenancy.

I don't agree that "leaving and expressing a desire" ends there fixed tenancy unless done early enough.  Notice from the tenant is generally considered required.  Tenants can't just ignore the contract they signed and notice periods in contracts have been enforced although leniently - allowing a shorter yet reasonable period.

Having reread the dates here though, handing back the keys on 26/06 may be sufficient notice for ending on 29/07.

As always, IANAL.

saajan_12

User897 said:

Hello everyone,

I’ve just come on here to seek some advice regarding a current rent dispute I have.

Our fallout with the landlord started in June, when they wanted to increase the rent above the contracted limit (limit was 5% landlord wanted to raise the rent by 8.5 / 9%). The answer given by the letting agent when this was raised was that it wasn’t a breach of contract, and that the landlord could simply run down the existing contract and rewrite her conditions in to a new one.- well yes they can't unilatterally force a higher rent without you agreeing to a new contract. If you do both agree then you can start a new contract on whatever terms. If not (well for any reason) both sides can always serve notice to end the tenancy, allowing the LL to look for new tenants who will agree the higher rent (assuming they can get that)

After this dispute, we were asked if we wanted to renew our tenancy. We asked if we could have until the end of the month to make a decision, and that either way she would have a required decision before 31 days before the end of tenancy, as specified in the contract. - strictly nothing was required here, you'd automatically have gone rolling after the fixed term. 

The landlord gave us 5 days, then ‘did not want to wait’ any longer so served notice for us to be out the property. The notice was served on 13/06. Our contract was set to run out 29/7. Due to having to give two months notice, the landlords notice period ended 14/08. - okay, so 3 things at play: 1) your fixed term ends on 29th July.. you can pay upto that date and leave. 2) LL's notice means that from 14th Aug they could go to court to evict. 3) You could serve your own notice following the fixed term when you were ready to leave, per your notice requirements.  

We vacated the property 26/06 and handed the keys back to the estate agent. I thought this would just be the end of the tenancy, and that we had vacated within the requested notice period. - no, nowhere on the notice does it say you can leave on any date and not pay for a day after. However if you're paying upto the end of the fixed term and leaving by then, then that's more relevant.  

I then got an email from the estate agent credit control over the last few days, saying I owed £366 rent. I queried this, and they have said I owe rent for up until the end of the landlords notice period (14/08), as well as covering utility usage at the property during this time. To me this seems completely wrong, as the landlord has served the notice under her own steam. By serving the notice, it seems she’s extended the tenancy by two weeks, without us getting a say in the matter. We never signed any contractual agreement regarding any extension, the last tenancy contract I signed shows the tenancy ending on 29/07. - as above, the LL's notice doesn't remove your rights to terminate the tenancy. You could leave by the end of the fixed term and pay upto that point (29July). Check the AST if it says anything (contractually) about serving notice to terminate at the end of the fixed term - if yes then I'd still think handing back keys on 26June is a clear sign you're leaving. Then the tenancy ends there and nothing more is owed beyond 29th July. If you're trying to terminate on 26June then  that's not quite right, and you would owe rent + utlities upto 29July. 

I’ve tried contacting citizens advice but can’t get through. I want to know what legal position I’m in with monies owed, and also the utility usage. On top of this, I know that although the estate agents are saying we are responsible for the property until 14/08, three days after the keys were handed back work was carried out on the property. I was not consulted about this, our contract says that as tenants the landlord needs to give 24 hours before entering to conduct any repairs. - well yes, you're correct but that doesn't necessarily mean you're due rent back, and the remedy could just be that you ask them to get out and they do.. ultimately up to a judge. 

To me it seems the landlord is both having her cake and eating it. I would appreciate any advice on this forum, any property gurus in particular!

Thank you

Comments in line.. Key questions are 
* Did you pay until the end of the fixed term (29July) or until you vacated (26June)?
* What if anything does your last contract say about serving notice to terminate at the end of the fixed term? (This may / may not be enforceable even if its in)

doodling

Hi,

CSI_Yorkshire said:

doodling said:

Hi,

All of the below is on the assumption the the tenant was renting in England and was in a fixed term that ended on 29/07/2023.

CSI_Yorkshire said:

The period of the tenancy contract ended, but the tenancy itself didn't.  There didn't need to be any signing of a contractual agreement for it to continue past 29/07.  A tenancy only ends when the tenant serves or accepts notice to end, or through a court.

The tenant "acceping" notice has no effect.  On the other hand, leaving at the end of the fixed term and expressing a desire for the tenancy to end at that point will also end the tenancy, no notice required (to end the tenancy)..

You know that I meant 'accepting ' by moving out, although signing an early termination agreement or similar would also work.

No, "accepting" a S21 doesn't work (and has no meaning), the tenancy continues, until the tenant gives notice and moves out, a court ends the tenancy or, in this case, the fixed term ends and the tenant moves out.  In this case if the fixed term hadn't come to an end then the OP would still have a tenancy (give or take an argument about whether the tenant handing back the keys and the landlord subsequently entering the property without notice was indicative of a mutual agreement to end it).  A S21 has absolutely no effect on a tenancy and it is in no way equivalent to either party giving notice to end it.  A S21 is only a legally required document before the landlord can go to court to start a process which might end a tenancy.

Just like I know you don't actually think that simply handing the keys back immediately ends a tenancy.

Of course not but that is not what happened here.  The tenant vacated the property before the end of the fixed term and confirmed to the landlord that they did not want the tenancy to continue.  The nature of a fixed term is that if the tenant vacates on or before its end then the tenancy ends at the end of the fixed term.  No need for notice (to end the tenancy).

As an aside, a tenant handing back the keys and the landlord treating the place as unoccupied is evidence that the tenancy has ended (i.e. that there has been a mutual agreement between the landlord and tenant that the tenancy is ended).  Of course, that is not directly linked to whether rent (or other) payments are due.

I don't agree that "leaving and expressing a desire" ends there fixed tenancy unless done early enough.  Notice from the tenant is generally considered required.  Tenants can't just ignore the contract they signed and notice periods in contracts have been enforced although leniently - allowing a shorter yet reasonable period.

Yes, it does.  30 seconds with Google will confirm that for you (try the Citizens Advice and Shelter Websites).  As I noted in my previous post, the provision of any contractual terms around the end of the fixed term may create a liability for the tenant to pay money to the landlord because they have ended the tenancy without notice but in this case (and I suspect more generally) they are likely to be unenforceable as the landlord clearly wanted the tenant to leave and I don't think a court would be willing to support the landlord in having their cake and eating it too.

Having reread the dates here though, handing back the keys on 26/06 may be sufficient notice for ending on 29/07.

As I noted previously, the tenant handing back the keys and the landlord treating the property as without a tenant in order to do works sometime between 26/06 and 29/07 suggests that there was an agreed termination of the tenancy at an earlier date.  That doesn't affect the tenants obligation to pay rent until the end of the fixed term (that would need to have been agreed at the time the keys were handed back) but does affect things like responsibility for council tax and utilities.  Of course, the issue is that there is (so far as we are aware) no documentary evidence of that possible earlier termination so it is probably easier for the tenant to treat the end of the tenancy for the purposes of utilities and council tax as the end of the fixed term as that is documented in their tenancy agreement (unless the landlord used a lot of gas or electricity between 26/06 and 29/07).

Please note that throughout the above, I have been careful to distinguish between the tenancy and any payments associated with it.  There are three separate factors:

1. I'm suspect that the tenancy ended somewhere between 26/06 and 29/07 (the time at which both the landlord and tenant started acting as if the tenancy had ended) and definitely at the latest on 29/07 when the fixed term ended.
2. The tenant was required to pay rent (or an equivalent amount of money but not technically rent after the tenancy ended) up to the 29/07 as a matter of common and housing law (unless agreed otherwise by the landlord, which didn't happen here).
3. The tenant may be required by their contract to continue paying rent (or an equivalent amount of money but not technically rent after the tenancy ended) for a certain number of months after they give notice.  I believe that the landlord stands no chance of enforcing that element of the contract in this case.

As always, IANAL.

Nor am I.

propertyrental

1) rent increase. LL can either
a) agree a new rent with you, which did not happen
b) increase the rent in line with the tenancy agreement (5%) which did not happen
c) offer a new tenancy agreement, at any new rent, which you can accept or refuse - which did not happen
d) evict you - which process the LL started by serving a S21 Notice

2) end of tenancy
a) the fixed term was due to expire on 29/7 - you had the option to
i) leave on (or before) that date, without any notice required, Your obligations for rent, utilities etc would then end on 29/7.
ii) remain, at the same rent as before, on a periodic (rolling) tenancy.
You chose to leave during the fixed term, on 26/6, so 2 a) i) above applies, and the tenancy continued till the end of the fixed term (29/7)

b) the LL served a S21 notice on 13/6, to expire 2 months later on 14/8. 
i) this did not (and would not) end the tenancy. It merely warned you that after 14/8 the LL could apply to court to end the tenancy. Only you (the tenant) or the court (not the LL) could end the tenancy.
ii) Since the S21 does not end the tenancy, the LL cannot claim the 14/8 date as the tenancy end date. Rent and utilities are therefore not due till 14/8
iii) since the fixed term ended on 29/7, and you vacated (on or) before that date, the tenancy ended on that date (29/7). No notice is required to end a tenancy on/before the end of the fixed term provided the T vacates. That's what 'fixed term' means!

You therefore owe rent, and are liable for utility bills, council tax etc, until 29/7.

User897

saajan_12 said:

User897 said:

Hello everyone,

I’ve just come on here to seek some advice regarding a current rent dispute I have.

Our fallout with the landlord started in June, when they wanted to increase the rent above the contracted limit (limit was 5% landlord wanted to raise the rent by 8.5 / 9%). The answer given by the letting agent when this was raised was that it wasn’t a breach of contract, and that the landlord could simply run down the existing contract and rewrite her conditions in to a new one.- well yes they can't unilatterally force a higher rent without you agreeing to a new contract. If you do both agree then you can start a new contract on whatever terms. If not (well for any reason) both sides can always serve notice to end the tenancy, allowing the LL to look for new tenants who will agree the higher rent (assuming they can get that)

After this dispute, we were asked if we wanted to renew our tenancy. We asked if we could have until the end of the month to make a decision, and that either way she would have a required decision before 31 days before the end of tenancy, as specified in the contract. - strictly nothing was required here, you'd automatically have gone rolling after the fixed term. 

The landlord gave us 5 days, then ‘did not want to wait’ any longer so served notice for us to be out the property. The notice was served on 13/06. Our contract was set to run out 29/7. Due to having to give two months notice, the landlords notice period ended 14/08. - okay, so 3 things at play: 1) your fixed term ends on 29th July.. you can pay upto that date and leave. 2) LL's notice means that from 14th Aug they could go to court to evict. 3) You could serve your own notice following the fixed term when you were ready to leave, per your notice requirements.  

We vacated the property 26/06 and handed the keys back to the estate agent. I thought this would just be the end of the tenancy, and that we had vacated within the requested notice period. - no, nowhere on the notice does it say you can leave on any date and not pay for a day after. However if you're paying upto the end of the fixed term and leaving by then, then that's more relevant.  

I then got an email from the estate agent credit control over the last few days, saying I owed £366 rent. I queried this, and they have said I owe rent for up until the end of the landlords notice period (14/08), as well as covering utility usage at the property during this time. To me this seems completely wrong, as the landlord has served the notice under her own steam. By serving the notice, it seems she’s extended the tenancy by two weeks, without us getting a say in the matter. We never signed any contractual agreement regarding any extension, the last tenancy contract I signed shows the tenancy ending on 29/07. - as above, the LL's notice doesn't remove your rights to terminate the tenancy. You could leave by the end of the fixed term and pay upto that point (29July). Check the AST if it says anything (contractually) about serving notice to terminate at the end of the fixed term - if yes then I'd still think handing back keys on 26June is a clear sign you're leaving. Then the tenancy ends there and nothing more is owed beyond 29th July. If you're trying to terminate on 26June then  that's not quite right, and you would owe rent + utlities upto 29July. 

I’ve tried contacting citizens advice but can’t get through. I want to know what legal position I’m in with monies owed, and also the utility usage. On top of this, I know that although the estate agents are saying we are responsible for the property until 14/08, three days after the keys were handed back work was carried out on the property. I was not consulted about this, our contract says that as tenants the landlord needs to give 24 hours before entering to conduct any repairs. - well yes, you're correct but that doesn't necessarily mean you're due rent back, and the remedy could just be that you ask them to get out and they do.. ultimately up to a judge. 

To me it seems the landlord is both having her cake and eating it. I would appreciate any advice on this forum, any property gurus in particular!

Thank you

Comments in line.. Key questions are 
* Did you pay until the end of the fixed term (29July) or until you vacated (26June)?
* What if anything does your last contract say about serving notice to terminate at the end of the fixed term? (This may / may not be enforceable even if its in)

Hi,

Tenancy was paid in full up until 29/07.
The contract does say LL has to serve two months notice if wanting to evict, but nowhere in the contract does it specify that if notice surpasses tenancy agreement end date then tenants are liable for the remaining notice period.

In hindsight I should have served my own notice within the LL’s notice period and not just handed they keys back. There was a typo in my post, keys were handed back 26/07 not 26/06

User897

MultiFuelBurner said:

With the little information supplied.

On the face of it you could be liable for rent until 14/08.

You seem to suggest you had a 12 month AST ending 29/07 but didn't serve notice for that date so the notice is the day supplied by the LL(which may or may not have been valid but that shop has sailed)

Out of interest why did you leave early? Do you know if new tenants are already in the property?

Sorry to clear up confusion (self created)
Contract was fixed term, ended 29/07. Payments for the duration of this tenancy were all made.
I handed the keys back 26/07 (not 26/06 as original post stated), thinking that giving the keys back a few days before the end of the tenancy would avoid any confusion, and also because I was in the area of the property management company on that date.
I don’t know if it’s really clear from my original post, what im contesting is the additional rental charge for the period between 29/07-14/08, which is the overlap of the tenancy end date in to the landlords notice period. Property management is saying I’m liable for the rent for these two weeks, I don’t think I should be given I never signed anything contractually to the extended end date, nor does it say anything in my original contract about having to pay in this situation.