Damage caused by subcontractor

le318

Good Morning,

A few months ago I had some new windows fitted; during the installation process a brick fell on my toilet and smashed the lid of the cistern. The installer took the broken part away and we arranged a time for him to come back and fix it; however on the day a plumber turned up and replaced the entire cistern. A few weeks later a section of my neighbour's ceiling fell down as the cistern had been leaking (I had not previously noticed as the water had been dripping down a small gap in the floor).

Repairs are being completed by our buildings insurance company and as the leak has come from my property I am liable for the £500 excess. The insurance policy is paid for out of the leaseholders service charge so any increase in premium resulting from this claim will affect them as well as me. Ideally the plumber's insurance would cover this- the window fitters can't get hold of him (the installer who sent him over no longer works for the company and isn't responding to their texts/calls). They have offered a sum towards the excess as a gesture of goodwill (they haven't said how much). I would prefer that they cover the damage on their insurance policy including the excess- given the situation is this unreasonable? 

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the situation but the installer who fitted the windows was self employed and not directly employed by the company. 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

My understanding would be your claim is against the window fitters and they in turn have a claim against the plumber. 

I would ask how much the fitters are offering and attempt to negotiate to a level is that acceptance whilst considering the headache of chasing it legally. 

As a general thought, perhaps a question for the insurance board, if someone else is liable should the insurance co assist in recovering losses such as the excess?

Aylesbury_Duck

le318 said:

Good Morning,

A few months ago I had some new windows fitted; during the installation process a brick fell on my toilet and smashed the lid of the cistern. The installer took the broken part away and we arranged a time for him to come back and fix it; however on the day a plumber turned up and replaced the entire cistern. A few weeks later a section of my neighbour's ceiling fell down as the cistern had been leaking (I had not previously noticed as the water had been dripping down a small gap in the floor).

Repairs are being completed by our buildings insurance company and as the leak has come from my property I am liable for the £500 excess. The insurance policy is paid for out of the leaseholders service charge so any increase in premium resulting from this claim will affect them as well as me. Ideally the plumber's insurance to cover this- I have repeatedly asked the window fitters to try and get hold of him but they have been unable to as they no longer work with the installer who completed the job on my property. They have offered a sum towards the excess as a gesture of goodwill (they haven't said how much). Of course I would prefer that they cover the full amount of the damage- given the situation is this unreasonable? 

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the situation but the installer who fitted the windows was self employed and not directly employed by the company. 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I presume you mean the full amount of the excess?  Hasn't the damage been sorted by the insurance company?

I don't think the employment status of the installer is a problem.  You hired the window company, they're responsible for putting right any damage caused by their staff or any agent they employ.  However, reading your account, it seems that it's the plumber who's responsible for the leak that damaged your neighbour's ceiling, not the window fitters.  In replacing the cistern, the plumber hasn't tightened or fitted something quite correctly, leading to the leak. Who was this plumber that turned up on the day?  Someone the window company sent along, or someone you commissioned?

le318

Aylesbury_Duck said:

le318 said:

Good Morning,

A few months ago I had some new windows fitted; during the installation process a brick fell on my toilet and smashed the lid of the cistern. The installer took the broken part away and we arranged a time for him to come back and fix it; however on the day a plumber turned up and replaced the entire cistern. A few weeks later a section of my neighbour's ceiling fell down as the cistern had been leaking (I had not previously noticed as the water had been dripping down a small gap in the floor).

Repairs are being completed by our buildings insurance company and as the leak has come from my property I am liable for the £500 excess. The insurance policy is paid for out of the leaseholders service charge so any increase in premium resulting from this claim will affect them as well as me. Ideally the plumber's insurance to cover this- I have repeatedly asked the window fitters to try and get hold of him but they have been unable to as they no longer work with the installer who completed the job on my property. They have offered a sum towards the excess as a gesture of goodwill (they haven't said how much). Of course I would prefer that they cover the full amount of the damage- given the situation is this unreasonable? 

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the situation but the installer who fitted the windows was self employed and not directly employed by the company. 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I presume you mean the full amount of the excess?  Hasn't the damage been sorted by the insurance company?

I don't think the employment status of the installer is a problem.  You hired the window company, they're responsible for putting right any damage caused by their staff or any agent they employ.  However, reading your account, it seems that it's the plumber who's responsible for the leak that damaged your neighbour's ceiling, not the window fitters.  In replacing the cistern, the plumber hasn't tightened or fitted something quite correctly, leading to the leak. Who was this plumber that turned up on the day?  Someone the window company sent along, or someone you commissioned?

Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes it is the plumber who caused the damage. He was sent by the window company; however as the installer who contacted him is no longer working for that company and not responding to their phone calls/text messages they have been unable to trace him

le318

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

My understanding would be your claim is against the window fitters and they in turn have a claim against the plumber. 

I would ask how much the fitters are offering and attempt to negotiate to a level is that acceptance whilst considering the headache of chasing it legally. 

As a general thought, perhaps a question for the insurance board, if someone else is liable should the insurance co assist in recovering losses such as the excess?

Hi, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure I've correctly understood your point about insurance- do you mean my insurance or theirs?

Aylesbury_Duck

le318 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

le318 said:

Good Morning,

A few months ago I had some new windows fitted; during the installation process a brick fell on my toilet and smashed the lid of the cistern. The installer took the broken part away and we arranged a time for him to come back and fix it; however on the day a plumber turned up and replaced the entire cistern. A few weeks later a section of my neighbour's ceiling fell down as the cistern had been leaking (I had not previously noticed as the water had been dripping down a small gap in the floor).

Repairs are being completed by our buildings insurance company and as the leak has come from my property I am liable for the £500 excess. The insurance policy is paid for out of the leaseholders service charge so any increase in premium resulting from this claim will affect them as well as me. Ideally the plumber's insurance to cover this- I have repeatedly asked the window fitters to try and get hold of him but they have been unable to as they no longer work with the installer who completed the job on my property. They have offered a sum towards the excess as a gesture of goodwill (they haven't said how much). Of course I would prefer that they cover the full amount of the damage- given the situation is this unreasonable? 

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the situation but the installer who fitted the windows was self employed and not directly employed by the company. 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I presume you mean the full amount of the excess?  Hasn't the damage been sorted by the insurance company?

I don't think the employment status of the installer is a problem.  You hired the window company, they're responsible for putting right any damage caused by their staff or any agent they employ.  However, reading your account, it seems that it's the plumber who's responsible for the leak that damaged your neighbour's ceiling, not the window fitters.  In replacing the cistern, the plumber hasn't tightened or fitted something quite correctly, leading to the leak. Who was this plumber that turned up on the day?  Someone the window company sent along, or someone you commissioned?

Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes it is the plumber who caused the damage. He was sent by the window company; however as the installer who contacted him is no longer working for that company and not responding to their phone calls/text messages they have been unable to trace him

Ah, ok.  It's still the window company's problem then.  It's their agent that caused the leak.  They can't wash their hands of it just because they can't trace him.

I agree with the previous poster - surely the insurance company should be putting everyone "right", i.e. your leak fixed, your flooring fixed, your neighbour's ceiling fixed and any out of pocket costs such as excesses or premium rises?  Whose insurance company(ies) are involved here?  

le318

Aylesbury_Duck said:

le318 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

le318 said:

Good Morning,

A few months ago I had some new windows fitted; during the installation process a brick fell on my toilet and smashed the lid of the cistern. The installer took the broken part away and we arranged a time for him to come back and fix it; however on the day a plumber turned up and replaced the entire cistern. A few weeks later a section of my neighbour's ceiling fell down as the cistern had been leaking (I had not previously noticed as the water had been dripping down a small gap in the floor).

Repairs are being completed by our buildings insurance company and as the leak has come from my property I am liable for the £500 excess. The insurance policy is paid for out of the leaseholders service charge so any increase in premium resulting from this claim will affect them as well as me. Ideally the plumber's insurance to cover this- I have repeatedly asked the window fitters to try and get hold of him but they have been unable to as they no longer work with the installer who completed the job on my property. They have offered a sum towards the excess as a gesture of goodwill (they haven't said how much). Of course I would prefer that they cover the full amount of the damage- given the situation is this unreasonable? 

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the situation but the installer who fitted the windows was self employed and not directly employed by the company. 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I presume you mean the full amount of the excess?  Hasn't the damage been sorted by the insurance company?

I don't think the employment status of the installer is a problem.  You hired the window company, they're responsible for putting right any damage caused by their staff or any agent they employ.  However, reading your account, it seems that it's the plumber who's responsible for the leak that damaged your neighbour's ceiling, not the window fitters.  In replacing the cistern, the plumber hasn't tightened or fitted something quite correctly, leading to the leak. Who was this plumber that turned up on the day?  Someone the window company sent along, or someone you commissioned?

Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes it is the plumber who caused the damage. He was sent by the window company; however as the installer who contacted him is no longer working for that company and not responding to their phone calls/text messages they have been unable to trace him

Ah, ok.  It's still the window company's problem then.  It's their agent that caused the leak.  They can't wash their hands of it just because they can't trace him.

I agree with the previous poster - surely the insurance company should be putting everyone "right", i.e. your leak fixed, your flooring fixed, your neighbour's ceiling fixed and any out of pocket costs such as excesses or premium rises?  Whose insurance company(ies) are involved here?  

Currently just our buildings insurer- Aviva

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

le318 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

My understanding would be your claim is against the window fitters and they in turn have a claim against the plumber. 

I would ask how much the fitters are offering and attempt to negotiate to a level is that acceptance whilst considering the headache of chasing it legally. 

As a general thought, perhaps a question for the insurance board, if someone else is liable should the insurance co assist in recovering losses such as the excess?

Hi, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure I've correctly understood your point about insurance- do you mean my insurance or theirs?

Sorry OP I meant your insurance should possibly be looking to claim all loses from the other party where they are at fault.

So your insurance should pay out and then look to claim all the money back for the pay out from the window company, as part of that they should possibly claim the excess a well and reimburse you when they get paid.

That's just my thoughts I'm not sure exactly how it works. 

When I say you it means the freeholder if it's their policy  

PHK

Re: Insurance

Generally speaking your insurer will attempt to recover their costs from the person or company liable for the damage. Or from that petson/company's insurance company.

However, if your contract of insurance includes a subrogation clause then they have a right to also try to get your excess back. This is common in eg motor insurance but not always in property insurance so check your policy wording or terms and conditions.