TV Licensing email - "We notice you've been using iPlayer"

albaredz

Hello,

I have received an email from TVL saying I have been watching iPlayer, tied to my email address and postcode, and my no-need-for-a-licence status is now void and I need to buy a licence. I don't watch TV and only have a BBC account to access radio stations.

I requested info from BBC because I had a feeling I may have watched iPlayer for a breaking news story and within the last few months it has a record of me watching a news story and politics show. Even if they were just for a few minutes, I hold my hand up, fair enough, strictly bang to rights.

What I want to check is what you advise I do next. I have no interest whatsoever in watching iPlayer, but I don't want to face a fine. I thought of signing up for a licence, pay for a month or two, then apply to go back to not needing one. My only concern is if TVL think I'm "gaming" the system and send inspectors to my home to see a TV that I use only for gaming and Netflix.

Short story: I mucked up and watched iPlayer a couple of times when I shouldn't have, and I want to find the most cost-effective least stressful way to resolve this without having to pay for a TV licence that I simply do not need.

binao

It would appear that the choice is yours, get a licence now or pay a fine and still.have to get a licence.

You're now on the radar,  a person of Interest  

Cornucopia

The email is essentially worthless.   It's based on matching an email address that has been used on a "No Licence Needed" submission with one used on an active BBC ID used to watch BBC TV content on iPlayer.

It is not evidence of evasion because there are a variety of legitimate reasons why it may occur.  

There is no need to do anything, particularly, because the BBC cannot simply fine you based on this rather poor evidence.   In order to do that, someone would need to attend your address, you would need to let them interview you without recourse to your various legal rights, and they would document your confession to evasion.   Even then, if you bought a Licence it's unlikely that you would be prosecuted.  

Personally, I would delete the email, delete the BBC ID and move on.   If you want access to BBC Sounds, set up a new ID with a different email address.

albaredz

Cornucopia said:

The email is essentially worthless.   It's based on matching an email address that has been used on a "No Licence Needed" submission with one used on an active BBC ID used to watch BBC TV content on iPlayer.

It is not evidence of evasion because there are a variety of legitimate reasons why it may occur.  

There is no need to do anything, particularly, because the BBC cannot simply fine you based on this rather poor evidence.   In order to do that, someone would need to attend your address, you would need to let them interview you without recourse to your various legal rights, and they would document your confession to evasion.   Even then, if you bought a Licence it's unlikely that you would be prosecuted.  

Personally, I would delete the email, delete the BBC ID and move on.   If you want access to BBC Sounds, set up a new ID with a different email address.

Hello,

Thanks for this, yes, I bought a licence soon after posting just to be safe. What I'm thinking now is whether to sit out the licence and not renew it when it expires, or apply to get it cancelled asap and get my no-need-for-licence status back. I'd personally rather cancel it asap and maybe recoup a bit of a refund, would that be safe to do?

Cornucopia

albaredz said:

Cornucopia said:

The email is essentially worthless.   It's based on matching an email address that has been used on a "No Licence Needed" submission with one used on an active BBC ID used to watch BBC TV content on iPlayer.

It is not evidence of evasion because there are a variety of legitimate reasons why it may occur.  

There is no need to do anything, particularly, because the BBC cannot simply fine you based on this rather poor evidence.   In order to do that, someone would need to attend your address, you would need to let them interview you without recourse to your various legal rights, and they would document your confession to evasion.   Even then, if you bought a Licence it's unlikely that you would be prosecuted.  

Personally, I would delete the email, delete the BBC ID and move on.   If you want access to BBC Sounds, set up a new ID with a different email address.

Thanks for this, yes, I bought a licence soon after posting just to be safe. What I'm thinking now is whether to sit out the licence and not renew it when it expires, or apply to get it cancelled asap and get my no-need-for-licence status back. I'd personally rather cancel it asap and maybe recoup a bit of a refund, would that be safe to do?

I would have thought it would be safe to cancel.   

It would be interesting to find out whether you get any push-back from them if/when you cancel your Licence.

km1500

not only is it safe to cancel but if you genuinely are not needing a licence then you are entitled to cancel

binao

albaredz said:

Hello,

I have received an email from TVL saying I have been watching iPlayer, tied to my email address and postcode, and my no-need-for-a-licence status is now void and I need to buy a licence. I don't watch TV and only have a BBC account to access radio stations.

I requested info from BBC because I had a feeling I may have watched iPlayer for a breaking news story and within the last few months it has a record of me watching a news story and politics show. Even if they were just for a few minutes, I hold my hand up, fair enough, strictly bang to rights.

What I want to check is what you advise I do next. I have no interest whatsoever in watching iPlayer, but I don't want to face a fine. I thought of signing up for a licence, pay for a month or two, then apply to go back to not needing one. My only concern is if TVL think I'm "gaming" the system and send inspectors to my home to see a TV that I use only for gaming and Netflix.

Short story: I mucked up and watched iPlayer a couple of times when I shouldn't have, and I want to find the most cost-effective least stressful way to resolve this without having to pay for a TV licence that I simply do not need.

The OP needs a licence for the next big breaking news story on Iplayer.🌞

The OP says he has no interest in watching Iplayer but he watched it.

If you watch, you need to pay.

Exodi

albaredz said:

I don't watch TV and only have a BBC account to access radio stations.

albaredz said:

I had a feeling I may have watched iPlayer for a breaking news story and within the last few months

albaredz said:

Even if they were just for a few minutes, I hold my hand up, fair enough, strictly bang to rights.

albaredz said:

Short story: I mucked up and watched iPlayer a couple of times

In your recounting of the events you've gone from only using your BBC account to 'access radio stations', to  'may have watched iPlayer', to watching iPlayer numerous times, all within a single post.

I understand the TVLA get a lot of (warranted) hate for their infamously underhanded practices, such as coercing people who genuinely do not need a TVL into buying one.

If you do not watch any live broadcasts or on-demand BBC programmes, then by all means don't buy a TV license. But you can't eat the steak if you're not willing to pay for it.

Cornucopia

I think the OP realises that they messed up, and did the right thing by buying a Licence.

They now want to cancel and (I think a reasonable assumption) they are committed to not watching TV broadcasts or iPlayer accordingly.

Part of the reason why TV Licensing aka BBC (there is no "TVLA") get so much vitriol is because of that "cowardly lion" aspect of their operations - that they seem to have quite a loud theatrical roar at times, and yet their actual effectiveness in the face of mildly well-informed opposition is minimal.

These "iPlayer emails" are a classic example of that - accusations based on smoke and mirrors that amount to nothing.  

Exodi

Cornucopia said:

Part of the reason why TV Licensing aka BBC (there is no "TVLA") get so much vitriol is because of that "cowardly lion" aspect of their operations - that they seem to have quite a loud theatrical roar at times, and yet their actual effectiveness in the face of mildly well-informed opposition is minimal.

These "iPlayer emails" are a classic example of that - accusations based on smoke and mirrors that amount to nothing.  

I said TVLA as quick shorthand as everyone knows who is being referred to - the BBC doesn't administer the fees either, they outsource it to Capita. Typically complaints about the TV License are generally referring to the practices of Capita.

Regardless, I'm not out to defend their practices. You'll find me alongside you on the front lines shouting about their heinous practices, including misleading letters making unfounded accusations, patrol vans used to imtimidate, etc.

It's just a bit nuanced with the OP, having admitted that they have accessed chargeable media on multiple occasions without a license. I know people that have been successfully prosecuted for the same (though not specifically through iPlayer usage - though that said, I feel like iPlayer usage (presumably identifiable by signing in or IP) might even be easier to prove than reception signals).

I'm not sure if anyone can advise on whether they'll take issue with 'taking out a subscription then instantly cancelling it' as a way to get around enforcement action. Presumably the TVLA (ie. the TVL/BBC/Capita) will tell you you can't.

Cornucopia

Exodi said:

Cornucopia said:

Part of the reason why TV Licensing aka BBC (there is no "TVLA") get so much vitriol is because of that "cowardly lion" aspect of their operations - that they seem to have quite a loud theatrical roar at times, and yet their actual effectiveness in the face of mildly well-informed opposition is minimal.

These "iPlayer emails" are a classic example of that - accusations based on smoke and mirrors that amount to nothing.  

I said TVLA as quick shorthand as everyone knows who is being referred to - the BBC doesn't administer the fees either, they outsource it to Capita. Typically complaints about the TV License are generally referring to the practices of Capita.

Regardless, I'm not out to defend their practices. You'll find me alongside you on the front lines shouting about their heinous practices, including misleading letters making unfounded accusations, patrol vans used to imtimidate, etc.

It's just a bit nuanced with the OP, having admitted that they have accessed chargeable media on multiple occasions without a license. I know people that have been successfully prosecuted for the same (though not specifically through iPlayer usage - though that said, I feel like iPlayer usage (presumably identifiable by signing in or IP) might even be easier to prove than reception signals).

I'm not sure if anyone can advise on whether they'll take issue with 'taking out a subscription then instantly cancelling it' as a way to get around enforcement action. Presumably the TVLA (ie. the TVL/BBC/Capita) will tell you you can't.

"TVL" is a more satisfactory shorthand for TV Licensing, I would say.   "TVLA", where "A" stands for agency or authority is a bit misleading, and contradicts 2 key facts about TVL, which is that they aren't a government agency and they don't have any statutory powers in their day-to-day work.

TVL do not use IP addresses in routine enforcement.   They certainly don't engage in any kind of "big data" enforcement using them.  

99% of TVL cases result from a confession statement extracted under dubious circumstances and where the suspect has not been given proper access to their legal rights.

TVL generally use wording along the lines of prosecution being a last resort, and their publicly available statistics show that around half the people they have evidence against are not prosecuted.   It's extremely likely that purchase of a Licence is one of the factors in their decision-making.  

A TVL case normally has to be brought to court within 6 months of the alleged offence.   Therefore a person would need to maintain their Licence for that long to be absolutely sure.   But that's not the OP's scenario as TVL doesn't have a viable case.