subsidence insurance renewal

kenmum

Could anyone share any light on this? It is a really stressful experience. I appreciate your advice very much!

I have the landlord insurance and the insurance company confirmed there is subsidence late last year, and the claim is still in progress. The landlord insurance is due to renew this month and I received the renewal notice already. As my tenants moved out in mid-July, I moved back to my house in order to monitor the crack and movement better. I contacted the insurance company today to notify them of the change and asked them whether I need to change from landlord insurance to home insurance. However, they told me they could not offer me landlord insurance anymore as it is not rented; and also refuse to offer me home insurance as the house has ongoing subsidence.

It seems to be against the Industry-wide agreement, that if a homeowner has a Subsidence claim, the original insurer should continue to offer insurance. As you could imagine, no other insurance company will cover me either due to the ongoing subsidence claim.

It is really stressful without an insurance cover. What can I do to convince my insurance company to continue to offer me insurance? Also, what will happen to my ongoing subsidence claim? How could I ensure they fix the issue properly if I no longer hold an insurance policy with them, as you know subsidence usually takes a long time to monitor.

Thank you for listening and appreciate it very much for your help!

DullGreyGuy

Who is your "insurer"?

kenmum

DullGreyGuy said:

Who is your "insurer"?

Thanks. It is AXA.

dunstonh

I moved back to my house in order to monitor the crack and movement better.

Is it subsidence or is it movement?      The latter is often incorrectly referred to as subsidence when it is not.

2022 was a drought year, and movement and subsidence claims were massively up, as they are in all drought years.  Some houses are just prone to cracking that is classified as cosmetic or lower on the scale and many insurers have no concern with that as it just forms part of the routine maintenance.      You need to be sure that the cracking is correctly identified.

Has a structural survey been commissioned, and if so, have they named it and given it a score?

Annemos

Good afternoon kenmum

I agree with you. The Continuation of Cover issue is the most stressful thing with a Subsidence claim. 

Please see this case. It is your situation, but in reverse. The ombudsman ruled that it was still the same business unit. And they should NOT be classing the homeowner as a "new customer". 

I appreciate that different parts of UKI act as different business entities, but ultimately they are part of the same business. It doesn’t seem fair in this case to refuse Mr and Mrs S subsidence cover just because they are moving from one part of the business to another and taking out a new type of policy.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN8701523.pdf

I wonder if you can somehow use this line of argument with them.  

DullGreyGuy often says that each case only really applies to the case in question. But I had a lot of success when I started using the arguments I had found. 

Good Luck kenmum. If necessary, I would log a formal complaint and then go to the Ombudsman. 

I don't know what the others think? They certainly should NOT be dropping you in the middle of a Subsidence claim. I have seen FOS cases about that issue. (I think they were always homes, though.)

Annemos

Here's some of the other cases I found at the time. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN1230555.pdf

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN0686479.pdf

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN2093738.pdf

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN8561608.pdf



https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3897491.pdf

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3833703.pdf


Couple of things I am noticing that perhaps could be tried. Even problem cases should be helped wherever possible and treated fairly. 

Also I wonder, does this work.... is a rental property still having the intent of a residence dwelling? (As opposed to a proper business property?)

DullGreyGuy

FOS cases are certainly worth looking at and at times quoting, they just dont set a binding precedent and so whilst the FOS is generally consistent you cannot force it to make a certain decision based on a prior one.  

Certainly the case linked to by @Annemos should give a reasonable level of comfort that the FOS believes the practice should apply to Landlord insurance and switching between PL and CL isnt an issue. Personally wasn't sure if the same practices applied for Landlord insurance. 

I do get the feeling that Annemos probably has indexed the whole catalogue of FOS cases on subsidence!

Ultimately, log your complaint with Axa, potentially point to the FOS case as confirming that the ombudsman doesn't feel its fair when switching products as long as both are underwritten by the same legal entity.

Annemos

DGG, you can only imagine how hard I had to fight and how long!! And more than once. 

kenmum

Annemos, thank you so so so much for all the info and linked cases. I am definitely going to read through them. You must have fought very hard in your cases. Hope everything goes on well on your side.

DGG, yes, a lot to explore. It is a completely new area for me. Good to find this forum and so many helpful suggestions here. Really appreciate your advice!

Annemos

Thanks kenmum. Yes thank you, mine is done now. After 4 years. 

All those FOS cases have other topics in them. Then the issue of Continuation of Cover is another accompanying issue within them all. 

I found it was always useful to have the right terminology. DGG also pointed me in that correct direction over how my policy was actually set up. 


Hopefully you will not have to go through any of this, but just in case..... (and for any others that might read this). 


Things I had to research as they started to blow up......

1.   Loss of cover in the middle of the claim when one of the parties dropped out of the Insurance policy set up

2.   Second loss of cover the following year when the new organiser company was bought out. Still mid-claim. 

3.   Making sure Repairs are Lasting and Effective. Mine wanted to close out the claim too quickly, before enough monitoring had been done to make sure the attempted remedy to stop the subsidence had worked. I fought it. 

4.   Completely awfully bodged repairs done by the first Insurance Company contractors. I researched and they usually have to be given a chance to put it right. But mine was so very VERY negligent, they had to change Loss Adjuster and send out a new Repair Company. I also found out that the Insurance Company and FOS will not take notice of a layperson, so we need the report of an expert, such as a Structural Engineer supporting us, when we get to a dispute like this. 

5. We have to be put back into the position we were in before the Subsidence hit us. Also, things like bricks and repointing must match the original as far as possible. 

6. Second repair company also then did a less than adequate job of the outside repairs. So I went back to my own Engineer for another report. The FOS said that I either had to give the 2nd repair company a chance to put it right, or I could have my own company in. I had had enough by this stage and so had my own in who did a really nice job. (That was then at my own risk....... I would not be able go back to the Insurance Company if my own chaps had messed it up. I was so relieved when they did it well.) 

Note that Continuation of Cover only applies "if the Insurance Company did the repairs, or if the repairs were done with their approval". When my own Building Company took over, I insisted on a statement from the Insurance Company, saying my builders were acting with their approval. 

7. Water main also burst, so I had to research if that would be considered part of the same Subsidence claim. 

8. After all this nonsense, all the costs had escalated hugely. That inflated my Claim Cost. Which would potentially raise my future premiums. So more research and I found out that they have to reset the Claim Cost "as if it had been done properly from the outset." Fought them on that for weeks. 

I think that's about it. Yes, I have lots of FOS cases for every problem I was encountering. Some I did not need to invoke, but others I did. 

The thing is... I became really REALLY interested in Subsidence cases. I still look to see if there are any new Ombudsman's case decisions! 

kenmum

Annemos, thank you so much for sharing your experience and pointing out the pitfalls! It definitely will help many ppl like me, who know so little about subsidence, insurance companies, their contractors, FOS, etc. Good to know you fought with FOS's help and sorted it out at the end. Well done!