Inheritance and DWP

Ammah45

BooJewels said:

As @Spendless states, the deceased's Attorney would normally handle such admin, if the individual were unable to manage such matters for themselves.  This particular requirement is because (as explained up-thread) every £500 in savings, above £10,000, is counted at the rate of £1 per week as income, so Pension Credit is deducted by a pound a week for every extra £500 in savings.  From the Government web site:

"Your savings and investments

If you have £10,000 or less in savings and investments this will not affect your Pension Credit.

If you have more than £10,000, every £500 over £10,000 counts as £1 income a week. For example, if you have £11,000 in savings, this counts as £2 income a week."

Do you have bank statements, so that you could go back and work out for how long he had more savings than £10,000?

I think it might be a good time to have a conversation with the solicitor about how this aspect is going to be billed by them - is it part of the 'Probate' service for which they are already charging a flat fee (I've been quoted 1% of the estate as a fee for the process and seen others post similar) or are they now billing you by the hour?  That may well prove to be the expensive bit of the process - so it might be the time to say that you'll take over and handle this aspect.

And going by my own experience, it would also seem odd that the local authority would be assessing your father regularly, but also allow his contributions towards his care to be low enough to allow his savings to accumulate, without asking him to contribute more towards his care costs - they're normally very enthusiastic about squeaking every penny that they can out of care home residents to minimise their own exposure.

ETA:  I didn't see your latest post @Ammah45 as I was typing - as above, I think this is perhaps the time to take over and finalise matters yourself.  You'll just have to discuss it with them.

Thanks Boo. 
All the bank statements have been sent to DWP. The solicitor is not doing any calculations. The DWP will look at the statements and tell us how much is due back. From the description above, it doesn't seem to much, unless I am misreading it.

In any case, I am going to ask the solicitor to hand everything over to myself. I am hoping they will just deduct their fee so far and release what is left. I am also hoping they will not claim hours of work on what is a straight forward case. I will be asking for details: numbers of hours worked on each stage and decide whether it makes sense.  

Dave_5150

Based on figures you have mentioned would be £60 a week (£3,120 per year), reducing by £1 a week for every £500 less he had of savings at any given time until the time when he only had £10,000 or less.

Sea_Shell

Also AIUI, deductions (disregards) can be made for one month's income, along with any cost of living payments they may have received.

Eg income doesn't count as savings until the following month.... giving them time (chance) to spend it

Spendless

BooJewels said:

As @Spendless states, the deceased's Attorney would normally handle such admin, if the individual were unable to manage such matters for themselves.  This particular requirement is because (as explained up-thread) every £500 in savings, above £10,000, is counted at the rate of £1 per week as income, so Pension Credit is deducted by a pound a week for every extra £500 in savings.  From the Government web site:

"Your savings and investments

If you have £10,000 or less in savings and investments this will not affect your Pension Credit.

If you have more than £10,000, every £500 over £10,000 counts as £1 income a week. For example, if you have £11,000 in savings, this counts as £2 income a week."

Do you have bank statements, so that you could go back and work out for how long he had more savings than £10,000?

I think it might be a good time to have a conversation with the solicitor about how this aspect is going to be billed by them - is it part of the 'Probate' service for which they are already charging a flat fee (I've been quoted 1% of the estate as a fee for the process and seen others post similar) or are they now billing you by the hour?  That may well prove to be the expensive bit of the process - so it might be the time to say that you'll take over and handle this aspect.

And going by my own experience, it would also seem odd that the local authority would be assessing your father regularly, but also allow his contributions towards his care to be low enough to allow his savings to accumulate, without asking him to contribute more towards his care costs - they're normally very enthusiastic about squeaking every penny that they can out of care home residents to minimise their own exposure.

ETA:  I didn't see your latest post @Ammah45 as I was typing - as above, I think this is perhaps the time to take over and finalise matters yourself.  You'll just have to discuss it with them.

Agreed when my Grandmother died her savings (from sale of her property) had dwindled to being between 14,250-23,250 the amount where you contribute but don't pay full fees and had been in that bracket for around a year or so when she passed away The LA could work out to the penny how much Nan owed within a few weeks of her dying when Mum contacted them.

Have you asked the care home about this?

Ammah45

Spendless said:

BooJewels said:

As @Spendless states, the deceased's Attorney would normally handle such admin, if the individual were unable to manage such matters for themselves.  This particular requirement is because (as explained up-thread) every £500 in savings, above £10,000, is counted at the rate of £1 per week as income, so Pension Credit is deducted by a pound a week for every extra £500 in savings.  From the Government web site:

"Your savings and investments

If you have £10,000 or less in savings and investments this will not affect your Pension Credit.

If you have more than £10,000, every £500 over £10,000 counts as £1 income a week. For example, if you have £11,000 in savings, this counts as £2 income a week."

Do you have bank statements, so that you could go back and work out for how long he had more savings than £10,000?

I think it might be a good time to have a conversation with the solicitor about how this aspect is going to be billed by them - is it part of the 'Probate' service for which they are already charging a flat fee (I've been quoted 1% of the estate as a fee for the process and seen others post similar) or are they now billing you by the hour?  That may well prove to be the expensive bit of the process - so it might be the time to say that you'll take over and handle this aspect.

And going by my own experience, it would also seem odd that the local authority would be assessing your father regularly, but also allow his contributions towards his care to be low enough to allow his savings to accumulate, without asking him to contribute more towards his care costs - they're normally very enthusiastic about squeaking every penny that they can out of care home residents to minimise their own exposure.

ETA:  I didn't see your latest post @Ammah45 as I was typing - as above, I think this is perhaps the time to take over and finalise matters yourself.  You'll just have to discuss it with them.

Agreed when my Grandmother died her savings (from sale of her property) had dwindled to being between 14,250-23,250 the amount where you contribute but don't pay full fees and had been in that bracket for around a year or so when she passed away The LA could work out to the penny how much Nan owed within a few weeks of her dying when Mum contacted them.

Have you asked the care home about this?

Yes I spoke to the care home and the confirmed that he was being assessed regularly by the council and all his payments were up to date. I actually saw the council inspector when I went to pick up his belongings and he confirmed that there is nothing else to pay.

I am not sure what any of this means with regards to the total deductions. I just hope there is something left!

Ammah45

Thanks everyone for your replies. The matter is still ongoing and the DWP is investigating how much they have overpaid and it's unclear to me how far they will go back in time. I guess I will know soon.

But in the meantime, I wanted to take over the administration of the will myself from the solicitor's firm and was wondering whether this is possible. I have read the terms of service I signed at the start and there nothing in there about this, other than cancelling rights in the first 14 days. Before doing anything, I wanted to know if, as the executor, I have the right to dismiss the solicitor and take over the rest of the administration of the state myself. The reason is that they are of course charging per hour and every time the DWP sends them a letter or requests information, the costs go up. 
Thanks

Ammah45

So, does anyone know if I can dismiss the solicitor as administrator and take over myself? 

BooJewels

I don't think anyone can know - it perhaps depends on the wording of your agreement with them and what work that was to cover and how that's described.   I think you're just going to have to have a conversation with them about it, as I suggested a couple of weeks ago. I do think you're now into territory where you can handle it yourself and it doesn't require legal expertise, so they're going to become expensive clerks for you, for tasks you could no doubt manage yourself.

JJWSJS8700

Ammah45 said:

So, does anyone know if I can dismiss the solicitor as administrator and take over myself? 

Yes you can dismiss the solicitor, then he will have to list what his charges actually are, plus make you sign, stating that you will deal with the DWP direct.

How long was your father in the care home for?

He will have had a financial assessment  before he went into care, do you know who placed him in care?

Did his latest bank statement show that he was still receiving benefits?

If his care was funded by the local authority, he should not have been receiving any benefits, only the £25 per week approx for his toiletries.

cheekyweegit

Was your dad on Pension Credit when he moved into the care home  and if so did he have an open Assessed Income Period (AIP) as decribed in a previous post prior to going in where he didn't have to declare any changes to his income?

If he did have an AIP in place before going in this would end automatically on permanent admission to the care home as it's classed as a life event and hish Pension Credit should have been re-assessed from the date he became a permanent resident.  NOTE *** PERMANENT RESIDENT*** any periods of respite prior to this does not count.

Department of Work & Pensions should've have done an assessment of his Pension Credit and it's usually done by sending out a PC2(LE) form.  The majority of this form is tick boxes to complete, with the exception of the part which asks specifically about savings and investments.  This form needs to be completed as at the date your dad first became permanent in a care home (even if he had moved since the original admission).

This form should have been sent to either the customer / customers representative eg Appointee / Power of Attorney / Deputy. 

If the customer had capacity, then anyone could help them fill it in, but customer would need to sign it, if a representative was in place it would be them who would complete & sign it (the represetative should have been registered with Pension Credit and your dads benefit mail would've been sent directy to them).

The first £10k of any savings are ignored, although all savings need to be declared including the first £10k (this often confuses folks who think they don't need to be told about the first £10k).  Anything over and above this is reduces the Pension Credit by £1 per week for every £500 or part of over and above the £10k.  So if a customer had £10,503.22 then it would be reduced by £2 per week.

If no review was done / the form returned and not processed, then if there is an over payment and they try to recover it you could ask for a reconsideration of the over payment based on this to see if any over payment can be over turned on the basis that DWP had the information and failed to follow up on it.

Equally if a customer who was not in a care home had to buy a new bed and bedding there is potential for the Pension Credit to be increased by £2 per week if this outlay took their savings to £10k or below.

If your dad was self funding in the care home, he should've been getting Attendance Allowance / Disability Living Allowance Care Component or Personal Independence Payment Care Component which would also have given him a premium on his Pension Credit even with £40k savings chances are he was still entitled to some Pension Credit even if just savings credit element depending on his age (as long as he reached State Pension Age before 06.04.16 there would be a possible entitlement to this element of Pension Credit).

* Pension Credit is made up of two elements, some get one, some the other some both depending on their income.  The two elements are Guaranteed Pension Credit (this is the one which gets you automatic help lots of things like dental costs, glasses, rent / council tax rebate).  The other Savings Credit, a customer might stil be entitled to help with the aforementioned, but not automatically, they would just need to apply separately for them via the NHS / Local Autority.

If / when funding changed and no longer self funding, then Attendance Allowance / Disability Living Allowance / Personal Independance Payment care component should've stopped & the Extra Amount for Severe Disability Payment part of his Pension Credit should've ended too reducing his payments.

If it turns out he was not entitled to any Pension Credit, get them to check his Winter Fuel Payment as when on Pension Credit and in a care home depending on the date of admission he may not have received his Winter Fuel Payment and should have done so, so money might actually be owed to your dad.

This link takes you to the eligibility to this years payment, but it will give you some valuable information about it if needbe. 

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility

One very common misconception I've found is folks think that the Local Authority inform DWP when someone goes into thec home & tells them about any savings / investments / property for sale when they do their financial assessment.  This is nottthe case and causes a lot of problems.  Some times they will send in a courtesy letter, but this is rare and the first time we they find out a customer has moved when a benefit letter is returned to them marked "RETURN TO SENDER - NO LONGER AT THIS ADDRESS" by the new resident of the address held for the customer.

Another is that a customer is only allowed £16k in savings and anything above that no entitlement to Pension Credit which is not always the case, as if a customer has a low State Pension / Housing costs such as ground rent / service charges or Caring Responsibilities / Gets a Disability Benefit in their own right they could have considerably more savings and still get Pension Credit.

Apologies for the long post but thought it was better to put more in that less in the hope it makes sense and helps to get things resolved.