Parking Code evidence - pictures of signs under £100, evidence of poor signage and no signage

Nellymoser

Kingsway East Retail Park Dundee DD4 Scotland. Split into 4 areas separated by road and landscaping. 
Asda only one with PPC and time limit (sign already posted with £70 pcn)

IMO car wash, KFC and We buy any car POD situated in their car park.
Somebody clearly didnt like when they added the additional entrance signs.


BM store and Harry Corry  

Wicks behind pets at home with car parking

Umkomaas

NCP Terms and Conditions. 

Why does a simple act of parking your car require so many T&Cs to be complied with?  No one should be faced with having to read a mind-blowing slab of tiny text in order to park and avoid the possibility of a penalty.  Read all of it, and you're already outside the 10-minute consideration period. It's all but Catch22, >10 minutes to read - penalty, fail to read it all and miss a vital clause, - penalty. Kerching! 

It's nothing short of absolute stupidity.

Trainerman

Umkomaas said:

NCP Terms and Conditions. 

Why does a simple act of parking your car require so many T&Cs to be complied with?  No one should be faced with having to read a mind-blowing slab of tiny text in order to park and avoid the possibility of a penalty.  Read all of it, and you're already outside the 10-minute consideration period. It's all but Catch22, >10 minutes to read - penalty, fail to read it all and miss a vital clause, - penalty. Kerching! 

It's nothing short of absolute stupidity.

I had a similar thought. You cannot possibly read them on the way in, and if you park without reading, you risk getting a PPC for some weird whimsical nonsense hidden there. If you DO read them all, you are outside the 10 mins.

Is this not the perfect example of people being deliberately set up to fail ......Or entrapment, as I call it?

TomOrrow

Plas Coch Retail Park Wrexham (Currys, Boots TK Max, Pets at Home and Costa), is walking distance from Rob & Ryan’s Wrexham FC football ground and Glyndwr University campus. Seemingly part of, but not part of the retail park, are Sainsburys (Euro Car Parks), Aldi (Parking Eye) and Plas Coch pub (no parking controls).  

Sainsburys (Euro Car Parks) have historically handled the car parking threat on match days sensibly as per notices (3 hrs free parking, reduced to 1.5hrs on match days), no restriction on walking off site,  a max charge of £85, and genuinely try to prevent problems with clear signage.

Plas Coch RP (Premier Park Ltd) however previously banned people from walking off site every day. And of course £100 PCNs were raised against people popping over from Boots or other stores, to Sainsburys or Aldis to pick up incidentals, as you do. (plus anyone who parked and went to the football when the retail park shops were closed.) It caused problems.

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/20299003.wrexham-change-controversial-parking-regulations-retail-park/

It took involvement of the media and the property manager Savills to produce the now sensible match days only application of parking restrictions including walking off site.

Aldis (Parking Eye). More legible signs in English are also displayed. £70 charge

Plas Coch pub at entrance to retail area has no parking controls at all, and never has.

I’d suggest that Plas Coch RP demonstrate PPCs can be controlled but it needs  land owner desire AND strong public opinion;
-        Sainsburys control Euro Car Parks by not needing £100 deterrence charge, nor penalising for walking off site.

-        Premiere Park Ltd were forced to abandon their policy of confusion when faced by public opinion, local politicians  AND the Property Manager, Savills

whilst Plas Coch pub shows no controls also work in a challenging area.

Snakes_Belly

Fruitcake said:

Snakes_Belly said:

I have started working on the email and I don't know how others are approaching this but I am taking each option and discussing the pros and cons. Naturally some options will be all cons and examples will be included.

 

I'm going through the points one by one and noting my response in a word document. I'll then copy and paste and email a response to each point individually. One email per point.

Good idea Fruitcake

I shall have quite a few comments about the unregulated clingons. They must go and that should not even be negotiable. 

NCC1701-A

Black Lion Pub, High St, Plaistow, London, no PPC, just patrons only signs

NCC1701-A

Hackney Marshes free car park, Homerton Rd, London. No PPC, no carmaggedon

NCC1701-A

Tesco Express, Forest Rd, Walthamstow, London, free 30 mins, £70 charge afterwards. No idea how they expect to prosecute anti social drivers.

Snakes_Belly

Fruitcake said:

We also need evidence where a PPC has caused so many problems for the landowner/retailer that they have been booted out, ideally without another PPC being brought in.

For example, Christie Estates terminated their parking contract with DSFP at their Sandhills beach car park, Devon in March 2021 and took over parking management themselves due to the number of complaints, loss of business, and loss of revenue to local businesses caused by the unfair and aggressive tactics of the parking operator.
I believe this would constitute the opposite of carmageddon. 

This is what the leader of Lichfield Council has to say about ECP who took over from Excel. It really has caused damage to the town. It is not inflation and the cost of living crisis as I see people at the West Midland Designer Village with mutiple bags from high end stores. The reason is that they can park all day at no cost. There are very clean toilets and if you are disabled there is ample disabled parking and you can borrow a mobility scooter. 

It's a shame that Lichfield is losing trade as it is a beautiful city and a place known for people who were enlightened. There were many individual shops but these are getting less and less. Some are only opening for a few days in the week and doing their business mostly online.

"Leader of the council - Doug Pullen, it is clear that the Three Spires car parks are no better for motorists under the current operator.

People are still getting fined due to unclear signage, with people still commenting on this group that they will never come back to Lichfield after being fined unfairly.

You posted on this group on 10/6/2022 that the new owners would be “Community-focussed”. With relation to the Three Spires car parks, and the conduct of the operator engaged, this has proven not to be the case.

It is unnacceptable for people struggling financially already to find themselves in receipt of what they believe to be a falsely issued “invoice” from a parking operator, when in the vast majority of cases a genuine attempt to pay has been made.

As the person ultimately responsible for guiding Lichfield to be as attractive a choice as possible for shoppers, tourists and residents to want to make repeat visits to spend their money here what are you going to do about it ?"

Coupon-mad

@Fruitcake and @Snakes_Belly do you think you might be able to get evidence of this from the horse's mouth, like I suggested to @kryten3000 about MK Estates?

There are certain people (naming none here) that I'll write to when we are back from our holiday.

I want to encourage landowners stung by a PPC over the years, and local councillors to respond to the call for evidence.  Or to reply to an email with their experience that I can use as evidence rather than hearsay news articles.

Anyone in Norwich?

Their Councillors could give good evidence about how NPC have ruined the city.