EDF SVTariff is more than the Price Cap, July 2023

judyspur

Having calculated what our DD should be on the MSE calculator using accurate figures,  we asked EDF to reduce our DD but they refused. 

They want £240 per month,  MSE calculated £205 per m, we asked for £210 pm. How can they justify charging so much above the new Price Cap? The figures are clear surely? 

Gerry1

Your DD is not your bill.  It's just a contribution to a kitty that may or may not prove to be sufficient to pay the bill.

Switch to Variable DD if you don't want to build up credit, but remember that bills will be smaller in summer and bigger in winter.

Ayr_Rage

They aren't charging you above the the cap, the unit rates and standing charges are subject to that, not your monthly DD.

Slinky

Just move from EDF. 

We've gone to Octopus from EDF and our DD has gone down by £98 per month! With Octopus you can see what you're using and how much it costs, in half hourly increments if you have a smart meter. With EDF you get a confusing bill once every 6 months.

dunstonh

judyspur said:

Having calculated what our DD should be on the MSE calculator using accurate figures,  we asked EDF to reduce our DD but they refused. 

They want £240 per month,  MSE calculated £205 per m, we asked for £210 pm. How can they justify charging so much above the new Price Cap? The figures are clear surely? 

Not once in your post have you made reference to the unit price.   You are focused on a direct debit amount.  However, the direct debit amount has nothing to do with the price cap.

Give us your infromation in units. 

<div>Just move from EDF.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>We've gone to Octopus from EDF and our DD has gone down by £98 per month! With Octopus you can see what you're using and how much it costs, in half hourly increments if you have a smart meter. With EDF you get a confusing bill once every 6 months.</div>

What happens if they are eastern region?   That would not be a good move in that case.

Before they go looking at suppliers, they need to understand what the actual use is.   Otherwise the same problem is going to happen elsewhere.

Slinky

dunstonh said:

Just move from EDF. 

We've gone to Octopus from EDF and our DD has gone down by £98 per month! With Octopus you can see what you're using and how much it costs, in half hourly increments if you have a smart meter. With EDF you get a confusing bill once every 6 months.

What happens if they are eastern region?   That would not be a good move in that case.

Before they go looking at suppliers, they need to understand what the actual use is.   Otherwise the same problem is going to happen elsewhere.

Only if they are on E7 in Eastern region, otherwise the hassle of EDF isn't worth anything IMO (we are Eastern region and former E7 customers).

You've said yourself Dunston that if it wasn't for the E7 rate you wouldn't be with EDF.

[Deleted User]

Having calculated what our DD should be on the MSE calculator using accurate figures,

You make it sound like it is an exact science. Suppliers have bespoke algorithms that take into account historical actual usage; current usage per month and seasonal variations. For example, if you used 10000kWh of gas which covered the warm Winter of 22/23 it might not be unreasonable for the supplier to use an estimate of 10800kWh based on normal Winter temperatures to calculate a future annual cost/DD payment.

If you are unhappy then switch to either a variable monthly DD or a supplier that offers flexibility to change a DD via an App. I am with Octopus and I am currently paying £10 a month as my account gets the benefit of solar SEG payments during the summer. As Winter approaches, I will increase my DD in stages such that my credit balance is always enough to cover the forthcoming monthly bill in full. Five years on, Octopus has never cried foul.

judyspur

I'm not sure that those who have made comments here have followed what I have said.
My understanding is that, if I put in actual figures of the amount of energy used into the MSE calculator, then it would use the new unit price (as per the price cap) to calculate how much the new cost per month should be, based on my previous use of energy. 

I have done that and according to the calculator if we use the same amount of energy as we have done, then we should be paying £205 a month. 

EDF have asked us for £240 pm and will not let us put our DD down to £210 pm. I appreciate that this next six months is partly over the summer and the price cap will change again in the Autumn, but surely while this Price Cap is in place they should not be charging us any more than the unit price according to the cap.
To charge us £240 pm is charging us a higher unit price than that allowed under the price cap. 

Also the MSE calculations use annual figures for usage thus taking care of the winter increase in consumption. 

CSI_Yorkshire

judyspur said:

I'm not sure that those who have made comments here have followed what I have said.
My understanding is that, if I put in actual figures of the amount of energy used into the MSE calculator, then it would use the new unit price (as per the price cap) to calculate how much the new cost per month should be, based on my previous use of energy. 

I have done that and according to the calculator if we use the same amount of energy as we have done, then we should be paying £205 a month. 

EDF have asked us for £240 pm and will not let us put our DD down to £210 pm. I appreciate that this next six months is partly over the summer and the price cap will change again in the Autumn, but surely while this Price Cap is in place they should not be charging us any more than the unit price according to the cap.
To charge us £240 pm is charging us a higher unit price than that allowed under the price cap. 

I'm not sure that you actually understand the difference between a direct debit payment and being charged for energy, and you are misunderstanding the calculator's output because of this.

The price cap is a limit on how much you actually pay for each unit of energy (and on the standing charge per day).  Your unit prices and standing charge will not be over the price cap.  If they were, it would be a massive scandal and everyone would know about it.  If you are not sure this is true, tell us your region and what unit prices and standing charge EdF say you will pay, and we will check for you.

The price cap does not limit how much you put into your energy account each month, because it does not know how much you will use.

You have calculated that based on last year's usage you should be paying £205 per month into your account.

EdF have calculated that based on what they think your next year's usage is going to be you should be paying £240 per month into your account.

This doesn't really have anything to do with the price cap.  It is entirely to do with how much energy you are likely to use in the next year.  You have decided that you will use exactly the same as last year.  EdF have decided that you will probably use a bit more than last year and so your DD is higher.

If you actually end up using exactly the same as last year, you will have credit at the end of 12 months and can get refunded.  You will not be charged for any more energy than you use.

QrizB

CSI_Yorkshire said:

This doesn't really have anything to do with the price cap.  It is entirely to do with how much energy you are likely to use in the next year.  You have decided that you will use exactly the same as last year.  EdF have decided that you will probably use a bit more than last year and so your DD is higher.

It's probably worth adding that last winter was relatively mild and most people used less heating energy than usual. Next winter is likely to be harsher, but we won't know until it happens.

Scot_39

judyspur said:

To charge us £240 pm is charging us a higher unit price than that allowed under the price cap. 

No - they are not - that's the bit you are failing to understand.

The monthly DD amount is not linked directly to unit costs ALONE - but sum of standing charges plus unit costs * units used over the year.

The £240pm is the suppliers annualized monthly equivalent of total price for projected energy use +/- any debit credit at start of year - using the suppliers own algorithm - which might hopefully not be anywhere near as simplistic as I suspect the MSE calculator may be - which I suspect is just an exact unit use x Ofgem cap table cost.

They will not be charging more per unit - they are not legally allowed to on the default standard variable tariff - that's why it's called a price CAP

At least one - was charging a few pound per year less last year on SC and it  / others at one stage prepay (smart only?) rates iirc - the reason for the uncertainty warning.

If you only use the same number of units (and the unit prices and standing charges remained the same ) then you would likely pay less than EDF £240 - I guess the MSE number.

They charge rates may come down, they may go up - as might your usage. 

And bearing in mind last year was relatively mild - EDF might say the average heat demand is higher - and set DD level accordingly.

And Cornwall Insights forecasting - as of 24 July figures - a standing charge rise next April - c7p on electric iirc - gas ? - a unit rate drop in Oct, but a bounce back in Jan etc. 

Relying on a probably quite simplistic MSE calculator - as gospel - in face of such uncertainty - not just on rates (unit and standing charges) - but also on usage - a mistake.

It's simple list of 5 points - perhaps should make that a lot clearer.