Private Parking Company refusing to acquiesce to request from land owner to refund PCN

johjames

Dear All, I received a penalty charge notice for parking when using a ZipCar (a hire car). The PCN was paid from my account by ZipCar on receipt before I could appeal it. I contacted and heard back from one of the company directors that owns the land where I received the PCN, and they apologised for the PCN and informed me that they would request that the PCN be withdrawn and my money be repaid. However, I have just received the following forwarded email from one of the company employees who received it from the private parking company. Before I respond to them, I wanted to check with those here whether this response is the nonsense it appears to be and that nothing in the law stops the private parking company from repaying my money. I, of course, had not accepted any such liability:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi xx, 

Further to your conversation with my colleague earlier this PCN is already paid. Once a PCN is paid it is deemed as settled under BPA regulations, and we are unable to issue refunds as liability has been accepted.

Kind regards,

Fruitcake

Cobblers. This is a case of the tail wagging the dog. The landowner must be able to instruct their sub-contractor to cancel the charge, unless, that is, they do not have the business acumen to sign a contract that allows them to retain control over what happens on their land.

Start by putting the charge into dispute with Zipcar, and tell your bank/card provider not to pay it. Put it into dispute as an unauthorised charge as well.
Check Zipcar's Ts and Cs to see what it says, and doesn't say, about parking charge notices from private parking companies as opposed to penalties and fines from an authority, which a PPC can never be.

Point out to the landowner that the BPA is an old boys club funded by unregulated private parking companies. They are not a regulatory body and do not have regulations, only guidelines, a code of practice, that is not mandatory. The PPC, being unregulated, can do whatever they like and can ignore the BPA's guidelines if they wish.

patient_dream

As Fruitcake says above.

If you paid by credit card you can issue a section 75 claim to your bank and if a debit card within 3 months. mIn IS £100
REASON - unauthorised payment

Sadly these companies like Zipcar are very ignorant when it comes to private parking companies

Check their T&C's but regardless, Zipcar have taken away your basic right to appeal

Half_way

British Parking Association website About section

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/about

What don’t we do?

We are a membership association and not a regulatory body. This means that whilst we will address any concerns raised about our members’ working practices, we do not have the resource to deal with complaints about individual enforcement notices.

Zipcar terms

https://www.zipcar.com/en-gb/membership-contract/rules-of-vehicle-use

11. Traffic Violations

11.1 You are responsible for any traffic violations incurred during your reservation or as a result of your use of a Zipcar vehicle. These include, but are not limited to parking, speeding, red light, photo enforcement, and toll violations. You are liable for all penalties/fees from any such violation, including fines for late payment and any processing penalties/fees added by the issuing municipality. You are liable for payment of all tolls and any fines for toll evasion.

Wherever possible it is the Member's responsibility to pay the relevant authorities directly. Zipcar may impose a fee in connection with processing any such violations. See our Additional Charges Schedule. You must report such violations to a Zipcar representative as soon as possible within the prescribed deadline for the violation (for example, if the case is being taken to court).

11.2 You must notify Zipcar of any traffic violation notices found on a vehicle at the time of pickup of the vehicle. All unreported traffic violations will be the responsibility of a Member if they occur during the time period during which such Member is using or is responsible for the Zipcar vehicle.

 11.3 At the end of your use of a Zipcar vehicle and/or reservation, you must not leave a vehicle in a zone which has parking restrictions or which is not within the Designated Parking Zone or a Zipcar Roundtrip vehicle anywhere which is not its Dedicated Parking Space. If you leave the vehicle in such a restricted zone, you must immediately notify Zipcar, and you will be responsible for any and all violation notices, parking charges or towing charges incurred by Zipcar.

11.4 Where a violation, incurred during the Member's reservation period or after it as a result of failure to adhere to parking regulations, is sent directly to Zipcar, Zipcar will either pay the penalty/fee on behalf of the Member and then add the penalty/fee to the Member's account or Zipcar may, if permitted by the authority issuing the violation, transfer liability for the penalty/fee notice to the Member and the Member will then be wholly responsible for all correspondence with the appropriate authority and any penalties/fees due. Zipcar will always inform a Member which one of these two courses of action it has taken. Once paid by Zipcar, it may not be possible for the Member to challenge the penalty/fee. The right to appeal, or transfer liability, on any traffic or parking charge issued by any authority or body belongs to Zipcar and will be at Zipcar's absolute discretion. In the case of speeding notices or traffic violations, Zipcar is obliged by law to pass on the offending Member's details to the police who will then contact the Member directly.

Looks like it was written in American , the might try and claim it falls under 11.4 but with private parking charges there is no violation of anything , and furthermore should they try and alter it it could fall foul of unfair charges in consumer contracts as the organisation, or in zipcar parlance organization is un regulated.

And as such any tom !!!!!! or harry  could effectively issue a parking charge notice for anything  to a known zipcar vehicle and cash in when Zipcar pay the "parking charge notice"  as it looks official

Fruitcake

Para 11.4 repeatedly refers to a penalty and an authority, neither of which apply where a parking charge notice from an unregulated private parking company is issued. The very word, unregulated means there are no regulations involved by the PPC nor the BPA, which is also unregulated.

Therefore, Zipcar are in breach of their own contract by paying the charge and then charging it to the hirer.

1505grandad

" I received a penalty charge notice for parking when using a ZipCar (a hire car)."

Hopefully you mean "parking charge notice"

johjames

Thank you all. I have contacted ZipCar and the company director again. I will also contact my bank.

fisherjim

As above you did not receive a penalty or a fine it was a speculative invoice maybe you should send an invoice to Zip Car and tell them that they accepted liability not you and they have a obligation to pay your invoice too!

Half_way

It may seem pedantic, but its important to get the distinction between a  fine and a parking charge notice correct.

 When dealing with third parties, such as hire companies, lease companies  workplace issues and so on  this distinction becomes even more important .

 

As a rule of thumb, never refer to a parking charge notice from a private parking company as a fine, penalty, violation, fee etc - it is no more than a speculative invoice, that is the parking company is saying you owe them money and you dispute that in its entirety.

 

The next aspect is to re- enforce the fact that these parking companies are some sort of authority, they are no more of an authority than you or me, and in the link and quote form the website provided earlier this goes to show that the BPA limited is not a regulator and does not even deal with complaints about parking charge notices.

The British Parking Association should always be referred to as a private members trade body, and preferably the word limited should be added to the end to re-enforce this when dealing with hire/lease companies etc , ie BPA ltd

The main purpose of the trade associations as far as the parking companies go is as a gateway to easily obtaining registered keeper data  ie who keeps the vehicle according to the DVLA .

 It is possible to cut the faff and fees of joining the BPA ltd, or IPC as there are other ways of obtaining the registered keeper data  , if a vehicle has a sticker on, ie in the rear windscreen, or is marked in any other way ( ie Zip car sticker/windscreen sticker/markings etc) then anyone can knock up a so called parking charge notice , send it to the company marked on the vehicle and cash in when the hire/lease /whatever company pays up without thinking and charges the victim a profitable "admin" fee for the privilege. 

  It may seem Duff so to speak, if people think they are being Pro in Serving up such stuff but there are those out there who will happily hold unwary people to Ransom over this sort of thing

johjames

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I have disputed the parking (not penalty!) charge notice with ZipCar, the bank, and the landowner. I will keep you updated should you wish.

Umkomaas

johjames said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I have disputed the parking (not penalty!) charge notice with ZipCar, the bank, and the landowner. I will keep you updated should you wish.

Yes please, it's the only way we know if our advice continues to work.