Home insurance with a home battery

DullGreyGuy

Slinky said:

Aretnap said:

wiscombe64 said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

That's not the only general principle that applies though.

To take the unexploded bomb collector - would a reasonable layperson think that such an activity was "taking care to prevent damage".

If the collector had the bombs suspended from strings and swinging around the house, and a penchant for tapping them with a stick for luck, probably not 

If the collector had them in strong metal boxes with locks, away from heat sources etc, they probably would.

Interpretation of wording is always vague because nobody could ever write a document that precisely covered every possible situation.

Surprisingly, the bomb analogy was an extreme example to illustrate the point…..

It’s at one end (or off the end!) of a spectrum of risk isn’t it? My point is it’s unclear to me where the point on the spectrum is where insurers ‘draw the line’ regarding ‘acceptable’. I get that it’s very difficult and therefore the wording is deliberately vague / generic. I am just surprised how few explicitly named exceptions there are to automatically included cover, but if the universal, never excepted rule is that everything is covered unless it’s specifically excluded then I’m fine. But it’s not that is it?

In the unlikely event that my home batteries experience a thermal event, I just have a nagging doubt that my insurer will say that I should have declared them and therefore I’m not covered. 

The bottom line is that if your insurer did say that you should have declared them, your response would be to ask "where on the proposal form did you ask if I had installed solar batteries?" If they couldn't answer, you would have an easy win at the Ombudsman or in court, in the unlikely event that they were silly enough to refuse the claim.

As a consumer you have no obligation to second guess what things you might need to declare to an insurance company - if the insurer wants to know something the duty is on them to ask you about it when you take out the policy. Which can mean asking a specific question, or can mean asking you to tick a box saying that a list of assumptions is correct, but if they don't do either then they would have no grounds to complain that you didn't tell them about your solar battery.

I have an interest in this thread having recently had panels and batteries installed.  Problem is I can't remember whether the insurer asked about solar panels and batteries on the proposal as I didn't have them then. I think I may contact them anyway just to inform them. There's also the issue of an extra £12K of rebuild costs to think about.

Even without knowing who the insurer is I'd be 99.9% confident in saying they didn't. Who's your insurer and how did you buy? If you bought online then just go through the same process using dummy data and look for the Q... there is almost no chance that if someone thought it was worth going against the flow that they'd have removed in under 12 months. 

CSI_Yorkshire

I'm not aware of any repudiations based on non-declaration of batteries, and have been involved in several claims where home batteries and/or PV panels have been the direct cause of the incident.

I don't even think I've seen them mentioned specifically in a policy wording yet.

Our other debates on this thread have been more about general principles and how 'gaps' in wording might be dealt with.

TELLIT01

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  Personally, I would contact the insurer for my own peace of mind.  If they say it's all OK you're fine.  If they say they needed to be informed and the premium will increase you are at least covered should there be a problem.

Aretnap

TELLIT01 said:

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  

Do they? I'm pretty sure I've never been asked that. Are you thinking of car insurance?

It would be a strange question to ask about houses because nearly everyone would have to say yes. Any house more than a decade or two old probably has a new kitchen, bathroom and boiler at a minimum. Victorian houses will be mostly unrecognisable from their original setup and it would be impossible for the owner to list every alteration which has been fine over the years.

DullGreyGuy

Aretnap said:

TELLIT01 said:

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  

Do they? I'm pretty sure I've never been asked that. Are you thinking of car insurance?

It would be a strange question to ask about houses because nearly everyone would have to say yes. Any house more than a decade or two old probably has a new kitchen, bathroom and boiler at a minimum. Victorian houses will be mostly unrecognisable from their original setup and it would be impossible for the owner to list every alteration which has been fine over the years.

I've once seen a question on if the property has been extended and if the answer is yes then they ask when further Qs about when but agree that "modified" would be a very difficult question for anyone other than a new build owner to answer

CSI_Yorkshire

DullGreyGuy said:

Aretnap said:

TELLIT01 said:

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  

Do they? I'm pretty sure I've never been asked that. Are you thinking of car insurance?

It would be a strange question to ask about houses because nearly everyone would have to say yes. Any house more than a decade or two old probably has a new kitchen, bathroom and boiler at a minimum. Victorian houses will be mostly unrecognisable from their original setup and it would be impossible for the owner to list every alteration which has been fine over the years.

I've once seen a question on if the property has been extended and if the answer is yes then they ask when further Qs about when but agree that "modified" would be a very difficult question for anyone other than a new build owner to answer

We'd then have a forum full of debates about "does painting my house count as a modification", "does replacing a window count as a modification", "does adding sockets count as a modification".....

DullGreyGuy

CSI_Yorkshire said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Aretnap said:

TELLIT01 said:

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  

Do they? I'm pretty sure I've never been asked that. Are you thinking of car insurance?

It would be a strange question to ask about houses because nearly everyone would have to say yes. Any house more than a decade or two old probably has a new kitchen, bathroom and boiler at a minimum. Victorian houses will be mostly unrecognisable from their original setup and it would be impossible for the owner to list every alteration which has been fine over the years.

I've once seen a question on if the property has been extended and if the answer is yes then they ask when further Qs about when but agree that "modified" would be a very difficult question for anyone other than a new build owner to answer

We'd then have a forum full of debates about "does painting my house count as a modification", "does replacing a window count as a modification", "does adding sockets count as a modification".....

To be honest, we could already have a similar debate given Home does now ask you to declare all incidents if claimed for or not and so broken glass when washing up? Drop of tea dropped on the cream carpet? Scratch on that ugly figurine that was Mad Aunt Jo's? 

wiscombe64

DullGreyGuy said:

Aretnap said:

TELLIT01 said:

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  

Do they? I'm pretty sure I've never been asked that. Are you thinking of car insurance?

It would be a strange question to ask about houses because nearly everyone would have to say yes. Any house more than a decade or two old probably has a new kitchen, bathroom and boiler at a minimum. Victorian houses will be mostly unrecognisable from their original setup and it would be impossible for the owner to list every alteration which has been fine over the years.

I've once seen a question on if the property has been extended and if the answer is yes then they ask when further Qs about when but agree that "modified" would be a very difficult question for anyone other than a new build owner to answer

Doesn’t this mainly apply to renewing with the same insurer? The first time you apply, you answer the questions as asked to set a baseline (albeit possibly with many unknowns as previously established), when you renew there is sometimes a question like ‘have there been any material changes to the property since last year?’ In this case I feel I would have to declare the solar and batteries. This wasn’t the case for me.

DullGreyGuy

wiscombe64 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Aretnap said:

TELLIT01 said:

Building insurance policy questionnaires often have a very loosely worded item about any changes made to the building.  Solar panels would certainly fall into that category.  

Do they? I'm pretty sure I've never been asked that. Are you thinking of car insurance?

It would be a strange question to ask about houses because nearly everyone would have to say yes. Any house more than a decade or two old probably has a new kitchen, bathroom and boiler at a minimum. Victorian houses will be mostly unrecognisable from their original setup and it would be impossible for the owner to list every alteration which has been fine over the years.

I've once seen a question on if the property has been extended and if the answer is yes then they ask when further Qs about when but agree that "modified" would be a very difficult question for anyone other than a new build owner to answer

Doesn’t this mainly apply to renewing with the same insurer? The first time you apply, you answer the questions as asked to set a baseline (albeit possibly with many unknowns as previously established), when you renew there is sometimes a question like ‘have there been any material changes to the property since last year?’ In this case I feel I would have to declare the solar and batteries. This wasn’t the case for me.

Not normally, they normally will tell you to check the schedule is still correct and advise them if any changes are necessary meaning that if the sum insured is £50,000 but you spent big on tech last year and need to increase it to £55,000 then you need to call them. If you changed the dining room into a formal sitting room you wouldnt need to advise them of that. 

Just looking at the renewal notice from M&S/Aviva it is even less, it just says to check that the policy still meets you needs and that other insurers may offer different levels of cover and prices.

wiscombe64

Supplementary question. Are solar panels and home batteries covered by buildings insurance or contents insurance? My vote would be buildings insurance as they are an intrinsic part of the building’s electrical system. Any dissenters?