Pension annex after divorce

Workerdrone

WYSPECIAL said:

If he rocks up in ten years time, or he is dead and his executors come looking for his share, then it won’t really make a difference to you as he will still be entitled to 45%. The value of that 45% may have risen or fallen but so will your 55% share.

Have you written to your ex at their last known address?

That opens up another can of worms about who inherits that 45%. If you have mirror wills and he didn't bother to update his post divorce, would that mean you inherit your own 45% of the pension back!

Actually, thinking on that note brings up an interesting loophole. Imagine person A has a 1m DC pension pot and a mirror will. Upon divorce a PSO is put in place and 50% of that is transferred to person B. The mirror will never get around to being updated and person B, never explicitly nominates a beneficiary. Person B then dies early with no partner and no dependents. I would imagine the will having not been updated would remain in force and person B's assets would transfer back to person A, but what do the trustees do to person B's share of the pension. Does it then come back to person a as one big tax free lump sum under current rules.

i.e does person A then end up with a 75% tax free pension of £1m

Marcon

Workerdrone said:

WYSPECIAL said:

If he rocks up in ten years time, or he is dead and his executors come looking for his share, then it won’t really make a difference to you as he will still be entitled to 45%. The value of that 45% may have risen or fallen but so will your 55% share.

Have you written to your ex at their last known address?

That opens up another can of worms about who inherits that 45%. If you have mirror wills and he didn't bother to update his post divorce, would that mean you inherit your own 45% of the pension back!

Actually, thinking on that note brings up an interesting loophole. Imagine person A has a 1m DC pension pot and a mirror will. Upon divorce a PSO is put in place and 50% of that is transferred to person B. The mirror will never get around to being updated and person B, never explicitly nominates a beneficiary. Person B then dies early with no partner and no dependents. I would imagine the will having not been updated would remain in force and person B's assets would transfer back to person A, but what do the trustees do to person B's share of the pension. Does it then come back to person a as one big tax free lump sum under current rules.

i.e does person A then end up with a 75% tax free pension of £1m

A will remains valid on divorce, but the (ex) spouse is treated as if they were dead (even if still very much alive).

WYSPECIAL

A will remains valid on divorce, but the (ex) spouse is treated as if they were dead (even if still very much alive).

It also means if you die and have named them as your executor they can no longer act for you.

mrs1978

Marcon said:

mrs1978 said:

Pension sharing order completed a year ago which I have a copy which states he gets 45%. 
1. As it's an NHS pension it was left for me to decide which pension it came out of. 
I was litigant in person and the ex had a solicitor.
The court said the annex needed to be agreed and submitted by his solicitor within 14 days of order being completed.

2. Since then I have had zero contact with him or his solicitor who would only respond with we are not representing him anymore.

So my question is. His share still sits in my pension.
What happens if I never hear off anyone again?
Or what happens if he rocks up in 10 years and says I want my share? 

Is his share frozen amount at the time the order finalised. As calculated by CETV submitted at the time of court order. As this is a percentage.

I find it really bizarre that someone would want to take my pension and then do nothing.
Im concerned after a long divorce enforced by me that this is an untied end. 

Any advice is appreciated 🙏 

1. Not clear what you mean by this.
2. Which is what they would say if that's the case.

Have you contacted the (?NHS) scheme to ask if they've heard anything further?

He is still alive
The NHS pension say they have heard nothing. 
It was left for me to decide whether the money came from my 1995 section or 2015 as one was more valuable to me than the other. 
The court decided the pension percentage and that is where it became a dead end.
I have taken legal advice who suggested I insist his solicitor finishes the annex however he clearly hasn't paid them and gone awol as that's his usual track record. He is now unemployed. 

mrs1978

Pat38493 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Also, it might be worth doing some minor investigation to find out if he is still alive. 

But even if he wasn't, the question would still be there since the pension sharing order was already "completed" but maybe not activated?  Or it could also be that the pension provider is already doing something behind the scenes and they just have not told the OP?

Have you checked your NHS pension figures to be sure that it's still showing up in your pension?  Have you or anyone else informed NHS that this order exists?

I suspect that the answer to "can he rock up in 10 years and demand his share" is yes.

Other than that, you may need to seek legal advice, or you may want to post this question on the divorce part of these boards as there may be more specialist posters there who have better knowledge in that area.

Also - you don't say whether the pension is already in payment or not?  Guessing not but I'm not sure what difference that would make either way.

No it's not in payment we are in our 40s so a way off but I feel extremely unsettled it's pending and not finalised. 
He was supposed to pay the NHS a fee to have his share removed into his own pot.
He will not discuss it, reply about that.
He will only message me once twice a year max to see the children.

Marcon

mrs1978 said:

Marcon said:

mrs1978 said:

Pension sharing order completed a year ago which I have a copy which states he gets 45%. 
1. As it's an NHS pension it was left for me to decide which pension it came out of. 
I was litigant in person and the ex had a solicitor.
The court said the annex needed to be agreed and submitted by his solicitor within 14 days of order being completed.

2. Since then I have had zero contact with him or his solicitor who would only respond with we are not representing him anymore.

So my question is. His share still sits in my pension.
What happens if I never hear off anyone again?
Or what happens if he rocks up in 10 years and says I want my share? 

Is his share frozen amount at the time the order finalised. As calculated by CETV submitted at the time of court order. As this is a percentage.

I find it really bizarre that someone would want to take my pension and then do nothing.
Im concerned after a long divorce enforced by me that this is an untied end. 

Any advice is appreciated 🙏 

1. Not clear what you mean by this.
2. Which is what they would say if that's the case.

Have you contacted the (?NHS) scheme to ask if they've heard anything further?

He is still alive
The NHS pension say they have heard nothing. 
It was left for me to decide whether the money came from my 1995 section or 2015 as one was more valuable to me than the other. 
The court decided the pension percentage and that is where it became a dead end.
I have taken legal advice who suggested I insist his solicitor finishes the annex however he clearly hasn't paid them and gone awol as that's his usual track record. He is now unemployed. 

So it's a case of which section rather than which pension (it's all NHS).

I'd go back to your legal adviser and ask how you can 'insist' his solicitor does something when you aren't the client and the solicitor is no longer under instruction (and may not have been paid for the work they've already done).

mrs1978

Workerdrone said:

Pat38493 said:

Workerdrone said:

I find it odd that he had a solicitor but then didn't go on to obtain a clean break order. Pretty much any solicitor worth his salt would recommend you do as part of divorce. So a few possibilities come to mind.

1.) He didn't want to pay any more money to the solicitor and stopped just after the decree absolute
2.) He is a bit of a deadbeat and fully aware no clean break order allows him to treat you as a cash cow in future
3.) He's come into money himself and its not in his interest to expose all of that to ancillary proceedings.
4.) He's dead

OP did not specifically say that there was no clean break order in place, but I am not sure if one could be in place if the pension sharing order has not been actioned.

Also - according to my understanding, not having a clean break does not automatically mean that the ex spouse is fully and automatically entitled to their 50% of all assets accrued after the divorce is finalized.  It means they can make a claim on those assets, but whether they would actually get any or not would depend on the courts, and in particular would probably depend on the extent to which the ex spouse can show that they are financially dependent on OP (also it's different in Scotland as they can go by date of separation rather than divorce).  So in your example, winning the lottery does not automatically mean that an ex spouse without a clean break could get 50% of it, but they can certainly bring proceedings to give it a whirl.

True the OP didn't say there wasn't a clean break order in place, but they did query whether their ex could come back in 10 years. My point was that the PSO didn't seem to have been completed, and in that scenario it seems unlikely that a clean break order would be in force. Hence the OP asking if their ex could come back in 10 years time would seem to be true, not just for pension but for other assets which could have been built up long after the divorce. I also don't think I mentioned a percentage anywhere, but to most right minded folk, the notion of an ex laying claim to even a penny of money you've rightly earned on your own post divorce is unpalatable, hence my suggestion to sort the situation out with a clean break order now. 

The OP freely admits they appeared as a litigant in person, so may not have been fully aware of the importance of ancillary proceedings. Its a difficult time in life with emotions running high. unlike say house buying which you might do a few times in life, a divorce is something you hope to never repeat. I'd never heard of clean break order until my divorce.

We have a clean break order.
The only thing he can have is 45% pension. 

mrs1978

Workerdrone said:

I would say, as matters of finance are regarded as ancillary proceedings to the divorce itself, regardless of whether you started dealing with the pension, it was completed or was never touched at all, unless you have a clean break order, he can come back for a bite at your assets at any point in future, if you inherit, if you have a lottery win etc.

its important to understand what sort of pension order has been made. If it is a pension sharing order, then the pension is split at the point of the divorce and a clean break order can be issued (nice and simple and your ex has no recourse to any future funds assets you may acquire. You say you have a document which states its a pension sharing order which is good. By rights, it should have been removed from your scheme at this point as its totally separate to your own entitlements. If its a pension attachment order (formerly known as an earmarking order) then the funds stay in your pot but there is a note in place that upon commencement x% is to be directed to the ex spouse. Pension attachment orders aren't often used. 

So as it seems you have a pension sharing order (And I assume you've separated all other marital assets, house, bank accounts etc), then you are in the position of obtaining a clean break order to protect yourself financially. You really should do this as soon as possible as without it, he can come back at a future point demanding any new assets you have acquired (There are some limitations on this, remarriage of the ex partner being one).

I find it odd that he had a solicitor but then didn't go on to obtain a clean break order. Pretty much any solicitor worth his salt would recommend you do as part of divorce. So a few possibilities come to mind.

1.) He didn't want to pay any more money to the solicitor and stopped just after the decree absolute
2.) He is a bit of a deadbeat and fully aware no clean break order allows him to treat you as a cash cow in future
3.) He's come into money himself and its not in his interest to expose all of that to ancillary proceedings.
4.) He's dead

Re him being dead. Perhaps he's not, he might have won the lottery and is terrified of your finding out as your entitled to half :-)

My own divorce was rather messy, there were no marital assets remaining, she'd spent the lot, but she went to ground and I couldn't find her to serve papers. Knowing she was an inveterate liar, control freak and disorganised, I surmised that she would be telling porkies about how it was me being award and holding up the divorce, so I just sent a copy of my correspondence with to my solicitor showing it was me driving the divorce along with a covering letter musing on why she wasn't responding to her parents address.

Within 24 hours she was on the phone to my solicitor going nuclear, narcissists don't like being caught out in a lie. But I did get my divorce and my clean break order.

So yes we have a clean break.
45% pension sharing order.
Then the absolute was done afterwards
He is a deadbeat. I was avoiding being bitter but its truth. He wanted my house, but didn't succeed. So he wasn't interested in the pension. It was the judge that made that decision. I feel he doesn't understand the workings and value of a pension. 
So when the clean break and order was finalised that's the last anyone heard on the matter. 
His solicitor actually helped me with the absolute application as he said he was an idiot and felt a bit sorry for me.
However can't expect the guy to work for free any further.
So the order states the annex to state which section of pension it would come from..which was agree in court... should be filed 14 days after. It was not. 
Tbh it was a traumatic 4 year divorce at my cost highly. So it's only really now I've decided to tackle the end.

Pat38493

Maybe ask your legal representative to clarify what will happen if you do nothing, other than keep documented evidence that you've made all reasonable attempts to get the matter progressed.

You should then assume that in the end you will only get 55% of the pension amount, but just do nothing.  

The alternative would be for you to pay the admin fee to NHS to get is split, but I'm not sure if they can even do this if your ex refuses to cooperate or provide relevant information.  Also, if the judgement says that he should pay that fee, I don't really see why you should be obliged to pay it on his behalf.

You would then also ask your solicitor to clarify - if this was to then go on for decades, and you eventually put the pension into payment, what would happen then.  Should you put aside 45% of each payment just in case you have to pay it back again later?

I think that it used to be that a pension sharing order can't be activated if the pension is already in payment, but I don't think that's the case anymore (not an expert there).

Workerdrone

He is a deadbeat. I was avoiding being bitter but its truth. 

You don't come across as bitter, hopefully Karma will bite him rather publicly. I was walking down the high street in the town I worked in (Where she lived) some years post divorce and saw her face on the front page of the local paper "Bookkeeper thief lived the high life". A rather bad picture which tickled me. turns out she'd embezzled £87k and wee'd it up the wall on  silly stuff to impress others, flying lessons, trips to New York etc.

I slept like a baby every night since that knowing she'd seen the inside of a cell, but mainly knowing she'd been exposed.

My brothers tale of Karmic retribution puts mine in the shadow

Hoping you get your karma