Pension annex after divorce

mrs1978

Pension sharing order completed a year ago which I have a copy which states he gets 45%. 
As its an NHS pension it was left for me to decide which pension it came out of. 
I was litigant in person and the ex had a solicitor.
The court said the annex needed to be agreed and submitted by his solicitor within 14 days of order being completed.

Since then I have had zero contact with him or his solicitor who would only respond with we are not representing him anymore.

So my question is. His share still sits in my pension.
What happens if I never hear off anyone again?
Or what happens if he rocks up in 10 years and says I want my share? 

Is his share frozen amount at the time the order finalised. As calculated by CETV submitted at the time of court order. As this is a percentage.

I find it really bizarre that someone would want to take my pension and then do nothing.
Im concerned after a long divorce enforced by me that this is an untied end. 

Any advice is appreciated 🙏 

MattMattMattUK

mrs1978 said:

Pension sharing order completed a year ago which I have a copy which states he gets 45%. 
As its an NHS pension it was left for me to decide which pension it came out of. 
I was litigant in person and the ex had a solicitor.
The court said the annex needed to be agreed and submitted by his solicitor within 14 days of order being completed.

Since then I have had zero contact with him or his solicitor who would only respond with we are not representing him anymore.

So my question is. His share still sits in my pension.
What happens if I never hear off anyone again?
Or what happens if he rocks up in 10 years and says I want my share? 

Is his share frozen amount at the time the order finalised. As calculated by CETV submitted at the time of court order. As this is a percentage.

I find it really bizarre that someone would want to take my pension and then do nothing.
Im concerned after a long divorce enforced by me that this is an untied end. 

Any advice is appreciated 🙏 

I would suggest that you need to take proper legal advice. Some on here will be able to guide you, but I suspect that this may be a situation where it is worth it being split off now into a separate pot which is held until such a time that he makes contact. 

Also, it might be worth doing some minor investigation to find out if he is still alive. 

Marcon

mrs1978 said:

Pension sharing order completed a year ago which I have a copy which states he gets 45%. 
1. As it's an NHS pension it was left for me to decide which pension it came out of. 
I was litigant in person and the ex had a solicitor.
The court said the annex needed to be agreed and submitted by his solicitor within 14 days of order being completed.

2. Since then I have had zero contact with him or his solicitor who would only respond with we are not representing him anymore.

So my question is. His share still sits in my pension.
What happens if I never hear off anyone again?
Or what happens if he rocks up in 10 years and says I want my share? 

Is his share frozen amount at the time the order finalised. As calculated by CETV submitted at the time of court order. As this is a percentage.

I find it really bizarre that someone would want to take my pension and then do nothing.
Im concerned after a long divorce enforced by me that this is an untied end. 

Any advice is appreciated 🙏 

1. Not clear what you mean by this.
2. Which is what they would say if that's the case.

Have you contacted the (?NHS) scheme to ask if they've heard anything further?

Pat38493

MattMattMattUK said:

Also, it might be worth doing some minor investigation to find out if he is still alive. 

But even if he wasn't, the question would still be there since the pension sharing order was already "completed" but maybe not activated?  Or it could also be that the pension provider is already doing something behind the scenes and they just have not told the OP?

Have you checked your NHS pension figures to be sure that it's still showing up in your pension?  Have you or anyone else informed NHS that this order exists?

I suspect that the answer to "can he rock up in 10 years and demand his share" is yes.

Other than that, you may need to seek legal advice, or you may want to post this question on the divorce part of these boards as there may be more specialist posters there who have better knowledge in that area.

Also - you don't say whether the pension is already in payment or not?  Guessing not but I'm not sure what difference that would make either way.

Workerdrone

I would say, as matters of finance are regarded as ancillary proceedings to the divorce itself, regardless of whether you started dealing with the pension, it was completed or was never touched at all, unless you have a clean break order, he can come back for a bite at your assets at any point in future, if you inherit, if you have a lottery win etc.

its important to understand what sort of pension order has been made. If it is a pension sharing order, then the pension is split at the point of the divorce and a clean break order can be issued (nice and simple and your ex has no recourse to any future funds assets you may acquire. You say you have a document which states its a pension sharing order which is good. By rights, it should have been removed from your scheme at this point as its totally separate to your own entitlements. If its a pension attachment order (formerly known as an earmarking order) then the funds stay in your pot but there is a note in place that upon commencement x% is to be directed to the ex spouse. Pension attachment orders aren't often used. 

So as it seems you have a pension sharing order (And I assume you've separated all other marital assets, house, bank accounts etc), then you are in the position of obtaining a clean break order to protect yourself financially. You really should do this as soon as possible as without it, he can come back at a future point demanding any new assets you have acquired (There are some limitations on this, remarriage of the ex partner being one).

I find it odd that he had a solicitor but then didn't go on to obtain a clean break order. Pretty much any solicitor worth his salt would recommend you do as part of divorce. So a few possibilities come to mind.

1.) He didn't want to pay any more money to the solicitor and stopped just after the decree absolute
2.) He is a bit of a deadbeat and fully aware no clean break order allows him to treat you as a cash cow in future
3.) He's come into money himself and its not in his interest to expose all of that to ancillary proceedings.
4.) He's dead

Re him being dead. Perhaps he's not, he might have won the lottery and is terrified of your finding out as your entitled to half :-)

My own divorce was rather messy, there were no marital assets remaining, she'd spent the lot, but she went to ground and I couldn't find her to serve papers. Knowing she was an inveterate liar, control freak and disorganised, I surmised that she would be telling porkies about how it was me being award and holding up the divorce, so I just sent a copy of my correspondence with to my solicitor showing it was me driving the divorce along with a covering letter musing on why she wasn't responding to her parents address.

Within 24 hours she was on the phone to my solicitor going nuclear, narcissists don't like being caught out in a lie. But I did get my divorce and my clean break order.

Silvertabby

I don't know for sure how NHS pensions process PSOs, but may be similar to how the LGPS handle things?

If so, the LGPS would need a copy of the Court Order, specifying the %age of the pension to be transferred into a separate pension record for the recipient (henceforth called the 'pension credit member').  They also need the full details of the pension credit member and the full admin fee.  In my day that was £500, which could either be paid in total by one person, or split between the two.

No Court Order, no completed forms and/or no full admin fee meant no transfer of funds to the pension credit member.  Instead, the process would remain 'pending' until all the conditions had been met.

Pat38493

Workerdrone said:

I find it odd that he had a solicitor but then didn't go on to obtain a clean break order. Pretty much any solicitor worth his salt would recommend you do as part of divorce. So a few possibilities come to mind.

1.) He didn't want to pay any more money to the solicitor and stopped just after the decree absolute
2.) He is a bit of a deadbeat and fully aware no clean break order allows him to treat you as a cash cow in future
3.) He's come into money himself and its not in his interest to expose all of that to ancillary proceedings.
4.) He's dead

OP did not specifically say that there was no clean break order in place, but I am not sure if one could be in place if the pension sharing order has not been actioned.

Also - according to my understanding, not having a clean break does not automatically mean that the ex spouse is fully and automatically entitled to their 50% of all assets accrued after the divorce is finalized.  It means they can make a claim on those assets, but whether they would actually get any or not would depend on the courts, and in particular would probably depend on the extent to which the ex spouse can show that they are financially dependent on OP (also it's different in Scotland as they can go by date of separation rather than divorce).  So in your example, winning the lottery does not automatically mean that an ex spouse without a clean break could get 50% of it, but they can certainly bring proceedings to give it a whirl.

Marcon

Silvertabby said:

I don't know for sure how NHS pensions process PSOs, but may be similar to how the LGPS handle things?

If so, the LGPS would need a copy of the Court Order, specifying the %age of the pension to be transferred into a separate pension record for the recipient (henceforth called the 'pension credit member').  They also need the full details of the pension credit member and the full admin fee.  In my day that was £500, which could either be paid in total by one person, or split between the two.

No Court Order, no completed forms and/or no full admin fee meant no transfer of funds to the pension credit member.  Instead, the process would remain 'pending' until all the conditions had been met.

OP hasn't clarified what they meant by their statement 'As it's an NHS pension it was left for me to decide which pension it came out of. ' 

Presumably they are saying that they have DC funds and could choose to settle the amount in question using those - but presumptions aren't facts. It isn't clear exactly where in the process this settlement has got to.

Pipthecat

My experience was a pension sharing order which the ex failed to do anything with for nearly 4 years despite me repeatedly prompting her.  When she did sort it out the % spit was enacted based on the current value of the pension.  I did not have an issue with this despite me having paid into a DC pot during that time and so did not challenge it.

It sounds like you have a pension sharing order and not an attachment order, in which case I would speak to your scheme to see how they handle this scenario whereby the sharing agreement not been actioned. It's probable that they have not received the agreement.  I would confirm with a solicitor whether your ex is entitled to a fixed CETV or split (growing CETV), and if there is an issue what you can do about it. 

Workerdrone

Pat38493 said:

Workerdrone said:

I find it odd that he had a solicitor but then didn't go on to obtain a clean break order. Pretty much any solicitor worth his salt would recommend you do as part of divorce. So a few possibilities come to mind.

1.) He didn't want to pay any more money to the solicitor and stopped just after the decree absolute
2.) He is a bit of a deadbeat and fully aware no clean break order allows him to treat you as a cash cow in future
3.) He's come into money himself and its not in his interest to expose all of that to ancillary proceedings.
4.) He's dead

OP did not specifically say that there was no clean break order in place, but I am not sure if one could be in place if the pension sharing order has not been actioned.

Also - according to my understanding, not having a clean break does not automatically mean that the ex spouse is fully and automatically entitled to their 50% of all assets accrued after the divorce is finalized.  It means they can make a claim on those assets, but whether they would actually get any or not would depend on the courts, and in particular would probably depend on the extent to which the ex spouse can show that they are financially dependent on OP (also it's different in Scotland as they can go by date of separation rather than divorce).  So in your example, winning the lottery does not automatically mean that an ex spouse without a clean break could get 50% of it, but they can certainly bring proceedings to give it a whirl.

True the OP didn't say there wasn't a clean break order in place, but they did query whether their ex could come back in 10 years. My point was that the PSO didn't seem to have been completed, and in that scenario it seems unlikely that a clean break order would be in force. Hence the OP asking if their ex could come back in 10 years time would seem to be true, not just for pension but for other assets which could have been built up long after the divorce. I also don't think I mentioned a percentage anywhere, but to most right minded folk, the notion of an ex laying claim to even a penny of money you've rightly earned on your own post divorce is unpalatable, hence my suggestion to sort the situation out with a clean break order now. 

The OP freely admits they appeared as a litigant in person, so may not have been fully aware of the importance of ancillary proceedings. Its a difficult time in life with emotions running high. unlike say house buying which you might do a few times in life, a divorce is something you hope to never repeat. I'd never heard of clean break order until my divorce.

WYSPECIAL

If he rocks up in ten years time, or he is dead and his executors come looking for his share, then it won’t really make a difference to you as he will still be entitled to 45%. The value of that 45% may have risen or fallen but so will your 55% share.

Have you written to your ex at their last known address?