Family holiday / ESA & ADP

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Worth saying not sure regarding ESA.... but my wife had to inform Universal Credit of holiday dates and they demanded she inform when she returned or if any plans changed... that was in the last couple months for vacation less than 4 weeks. (She has a no work commitment as receiving carer element.)

"Yes you allowed up to 28 days without this effecting your claim, if you can please update us before you leave"
"you must notify Universal Credit of your return or any changes to your planned return date as soon as possible"
"Please confirm via the journal when xxxxx has returned to the UK"

With UC there is no provision for a holiday, all that can be looked at is Temporary Absences and that's allowable for not exceeding one month (not the 28 days they stated)
This can be extended by another month if it's unreasonable to return in the first month.
This webpage states you must inform your WC if going on holiday https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/universal-credit
But the webpage isn't the The Universal Credit Regulations 2013, and no where in those regs states you have to inform your work coach for temporary absences.
As long as a person fulfils their work commitment (if they have one) then a temporary absences a month or under needn't be reported.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

"Yes you allowed up to 28 days without this effecting your claim,

For UC it's 1 month, not 28 days. https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/universal-credit

lol... yes I think I had a thread on this. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included.

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Worth saying not sure regarding ESA.... but my wife had to inform Universal Credit of holiday dates and they demanded she inform when she returned or if any plans changed... that was in the last couple months for vacation less than 4 weeks. (She has a no work commitment as receiving carer element.)

"Yes you allowed up to 28 days without this effecting your claim, if you can please update us before you leave"
"you must notify Universal Credit of your return or any changes to your planned return date as soon as possible"
"Please confirm via the journal when xxxxx has returned to the UK"

With UC there is no provision for a holiday, all that can be looked at is Temporary Absences and that's allowable for up to one month (not the 28 days they stated)
This can be extended by another month if it's unreasonable to return in the first month.
This webpage states you must inform your WC if going on holiday https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/universal-credit
But the webpage isn't the The Universal Credit Regulations 2013, and no where in those regs states you have to inform your work coach for temporary absences.
As long as a person fulfils their work commitment (if they have one) then a temporary absences a month or under needn't be reported.

lol... yes I had a thread on the lengths of absence. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included and as you point to the government page isn't reliable. I never was able to get clarity but partner made sure less than 28 days all included. In terms of notification... obviously we had no real choice but to follow direct instructions in journal and at the end of the day better safe than sorry plus of course I wanted to clarify I would not be going. Hopefully all distracted them from the fact our waiting period for housing costs also discussed had been paid from a month too early... hopeless and hapless but with any luck appeased.

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

"Yes you allowed up to 28 days without this effecting your claim,

For UC it's 1 month, not 28 days. https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/universal-credit

lol... yes I think I had a thread on this. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included.

I think they are getting confused with ESA with the 28 days.
As you still get those days with UC, but amount of days will be different depending on month.
So if you leave on 31st July you can return on the 1st Sep (so classed as away 1st-31st Aug) so away for 32 nights
If it was 31st Jan, you would need to return on the 1st Mar, so 29 nights (30 in a leap year).
 

Newcad

For benefits purposes the day of travel out and day of travel back are not counted as being absent from the UK, because you will be in the UK for at least a part of those days.

As for what the legislation says vs what the DWP say:

Ultimately it's what the legislation says that counts, and in any dispute/appeal that's what the tribunal work to.
But if you follow what the DWP says it wants then things should never get to an appeal situation anyway.

Regard the DWP website and leaflet stuff as 'best advice' to keep you within the legislation, and if you tell them then they can check that what you intend is within the legislation and warn you if it isn't.

With something written on your UC journal though it is slightly different.
Regardless of what UC legislation says about temporary absences, UC legislation also says that you must comply with directions from your Work Coach or Case Manager. If you don't comply then that can lead to a sanction.
That means that you have to comply with what is directed on your journal.

Legally you don't have to tell UC that you are going abroad for less than a month, but if you do tell them then you have to comply with their further directions.
(Of course if you don't tell them then they won't know to put anything on the journal).

In the end if you are going for less than a month then strictly by law it's your choice whether to tell UC or not, but if you do tell them then you are covering yourself against possible questions later.

Also imagine that you have gone abroad without telling them, and on your first day of a 3 week holiday you get a text message that you have a jobcentre appointment next week so will need to fly back or get a missed appointment sanction.

PS. If your absence will span your UC monthly assessment period end/start date then that's a special case and I would always tell them.

HillStreetBlues

@Newcad just a slight correction to your post, it's month or less, as just "less than a month" would be a day shorter.

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

lol... yes I had a thread on the lengths of absence. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included and as you point to the government page isn't reliable. I never was able to get clarity but partner made sure less than 28 days all included. In terms of notification... obviously we had no real choice but to follow direct instructions in journal and at the end of the day better safe than sorry plus of course I wanted to clarify I would not be going. Hopefully all distracted them from the fact our waiting period for housing costs also discussed had been paid from a month too early... hopeless and hapless but with any luck appeased.

Agree it's better to be safe.
With the 28 days, that applies to carers allowance as shouldn't be out of the country from more than 28 days in a 6 month period.
Not sure it the same applies to cares element in UC.

poppy12345

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

lol... yes I had a thread on the lengths of absence. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included and as you point to the government page isn't reliable. I never was able to get clarity but partner made sure less than 28 days all included. In terms of notification... obviously we had no real choice but to follow direct instructions in journal and at the end of the day better safe than sorry plus of course I wanted to clarify I would not be going. Hopefully all distracted them from the fact our waiting period for housing costs also discussed had been paid from a month too early... hopeless and hapless but with any luck appeased.

Not sure it the same applies to cares element in UC.

No, the rules for that are the same as they are for UC.

HillStreetBlues

poppy12345 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

lol... yes I had a thread on the lengths of absence. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included and as you point to the government page isn't reliable. I never was able to get clarity but partner made sure less than 28 days all included. In terms of notification... obviously we had no real choice but to follow direct instructions in journal and at the end of the day better safe than sorry plus of course I wanted to clarify I would not be going. Hopefully all distracted them from the fact our waiting period for housing costs also discussed had been paid from a month too early... hopeless and hapless but with any luck appeased.

Not sure it the same applies to cares element in UC.

No, the rules for that are the same as they are for UC.

Sorry,  is that, yes, the rules are the same or no, the rules are different,  as "No"  and the "same" are contradictory in reply to my statement

poppy12345

HillStreetBlues said:

poppy12345 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

lol... yes I had a thread on the lengths of absence. UC agents were clearly unsure on the phone and in writing plus didn't know whether the days of travel were included and as you point to the government page isn't reliable. I never was able to get clarity but partner made sure less than 28 days all included. In terms of notification... obviously we had no real choice but to follow direct instructions in journal and at the end of the day better safe than sorry plus of course I wanted to clarify I would not be going. Hopefully all distracted them from the fact our waiting period for housing costs also discussed had been paid from a month too early... hopeless and hapless but with any luck appeased.

Not sure it the same applies to cares element in UC.

No, the rules for that are the same as they are for UC.

Sorry,  is that yes, the rules are the same or no, the rules are different?

Meaning the rules for carers element are the same for UC because it's part of UC.  Carers allowance rules are different.