Old Electricity Board meter out of cert but works fine - so many questions

TriangleClose

When I moved to this rural cottage 8 yrs ago the prior owners had Economy 7 meter (clock timer to the left of the meter). The supplier, Ecotricty, was unable to change this to ordinary account so I switched to EDF and have supplied readings ever since (gubbins cupboard at eye level in sitting room and easily accessible). In March of last year when Martin suggested switching from Monthly Budget to Monthly Whole payment I manged to do so. It's finally settling down now as EDF's on-line system erratically accepts or rejects my manual readings, so now I take the time to ring in my readings to generate a monthly bill. But each time I call in the representative asks about fitting a Smart Meter. This rural location is in a signal black spot and we have frequent power outages. Even my new (ish) BT battery back up for internet is unreliable. I researched my meter on-line and found its certification (25 yrs) expired a few years ago. I do not want a digital meter much less a smart meter. Now I am receiving texts and post telling me to arrange an appointment for the meter to be replaced. I LIKE my old meter. Anyone have any experience with this? do I HAVE to change it? am I correct in thinking that they might force a new digital meter but they cannot force me to have the Smart function? if they do force a new digital meter and it stops functioning (display fails, electrical surge fries the electronics, etc) how can I track my kW usage?

CSI_Yorkshire

Certification has expired.

The supplier is now allowed to fit a new meter, with or without your consent.

This will be a smart digital meter, with or without your consent.

If the meter breaks, you tell the supplier and get a new one.  Just like if the old meter broke.

[Deleted User]

It is not YOUR meter. It is owned by a Meter Asset Provider. All meters have a certified life, and energy suppliers are not permitted to bill if the meter has passed its certified life. Certification relates to metering accuracy. How would you feel if you bought 1Kg of high quality coffee beans only to find that the bag contained 900gms when you got home.

The Government now allows suppliers to fit smart meters WITHOUT the consumer’s approval in meter end-of-life situations. 

Scot_39

It may be working - but there is no guarantee it is still doing so accurately.

And that is the point of certification.  Expected life of accurate readings.

And with modern digital and electronic meters - I suspect increasingly likely lowered by expected failure rates with age.

Many old meters were 25-40 years certification - some new are as little as 10.

The electric meter in my parents old home was at least 50 yr old when replaced afaik - having moved in c1970  - it just went Smart in Dec (sis still lives there now).  SP refused to replace it when we asked when rest of house rewired in the 80s.

Gerry1

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are: replacing a meterinstalling a meter for the first time, such as in a new property.  You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

Gerry1

Areas where smart meter signals do not work

Smart meters need a signal to work. The signal comes from the Smart Metering Wide Area Network (SM-WAN). This is a national network that connects smart meters and energy suppliers. Your electricity supplier will tell you if your home can connect to the network and if not what your options are for replacing your existing meter.

If you do not want a smart meter

You can choose not to upgrade to a smart meter.  However, you may not have the same functionality as you have now, and you may also be limited with the choice of tariffs.

Energy suppliers are required to install smart meters as part of the UK government’s programme to replace older energy meters in homes and businesses across England, Wales and Scotland. You can find information about smart meters and the benefits of having one installed on the Smart meters website.

You should speak to your supplier to understand all the options available to you.

FreeBear

TriangleClose said: if they do force a new digital meter and it stops functioning (display fails, electrical surge fries the electronics, etc) how can I track my kW usage?

You can get energy monitors that clip over one of the cables between the meter & consumer units - The basic battery operated ones like Owl and Energenie just measure the current, so are not particularly accurate. Others, like the Peacefair PZEM-022 need wiring in to the mains so you get a reasonably accurate reading. Or if you have space in your consumer unit, there are a number of DIN rail mounted options starting at around £20 (just watch the minimum sensitivity levels). Downside to a DIN rail mounted one (assuming there is space in the consumer unit), is if you are not OK with working on electrics, you'll need to pay an electrician to do it - Some of them can be <ahem> "difficult" about mounting devices in the consumer unit that haven't been manufactured by the maker of the consumer unit.

That said, if the electricity meter gets fried by a surge, it may well take out other electronic devices in the house, including any energy monitors you have had fitted.

Or you could get an old mechanical electricity meter off ebay, and have an electrician fit it for you between the "smart"/digital meter and your consumer unit.

Suggestion if you do have a smart meter fitted - Insist on having an isolator switch fitted (tell them you are planning on getting an EV in the near future). Then work can be carried out (such as fitting a secondary meter or a new consumer unit) safely without having to pull the main fuse.

dunstonh

This rural location is in a signal black spot and we have frequent power outages.

Same here and that prevented two previous attempts at a smart meter over the years.   However, changes mean that we can now get a smart meter and it is working despite being rural and in a signal blackspot and we have around 12-15 power outages a year.

Even my new (ish) BT battery back up for internet is unreliable. 

But if it works much of the time, then a smart meter should too.

 am I correct in thinking that they might force a new digital meter but they cannot force me to have the Smart function?

Digital non-smart meters were more unreliable than smart meters.   They frequently would lose time.   Especially with power cuts.

 if they do force a new digital meter and it stops functioning (display fails, electrical surge fries the electronics, etc) how can I track my kW usage?

Why are you worrying about failure on a smart meter when all meters can potentially fail?
If it breaks, they put a new one in.

CSI_Yorkshire

Gerry1 said:

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

Gerry1 said:

Areas where smart meter signals do not work

Smart meters need a signal to work. The signal comes from the Smart Metering Wide Area Network (SM-WAN). This is a national network that connects smart meters and energy suppliers. Your electricity supplier will tell you if your home can connect to the network and if not what your options are for replacing your existing meter.

If you do not want a smart meter

You can choose not to upgrade to a smart meter.  However, you may not have the same functionality as you have now, and you may also be limited with the choice of tariffs.

Energy suppliers are required to install smart meters as part of the UK government’s programme to replace older energy meters in homes and businesses across England, Wales and Scotland. You can find information about smart meters and the benefits of having one installed on the Smart meters website.

You should speak to your supplier to understand all the options available to you.

Except that both of these posts refer to the old position prior to subsequent clarifications (and the supply licence conditions), and also do not refer to end-of-life meters (such as those where the certification has expired).  These statements simply refer to the rolling upgrade program and do not apply in the OP's circumstances.

Gerry1

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Gerry1 said:

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

Gerry1 said:

Areas where smart meter signals do not work

Smart meters need a signal to work. The signal comes from the Smart Metering Wide Area Network (SM-WAN). This is a national network that connects smart meters and energy suppliers. Your electricity supplier will tell you if your home can connect to the network and if not what your options are for replacing your existing meter.

If you do not want a smart meter

You can choose not to upgrade to a smart meter.  However, you may not have the same functionality as you have now, and you may also be limited with the choice of tariffs.

Energy suppliers are required to install smart meters as part of the UK government’s programme to replace older energy meters in homes and businesses across England, Wales and Scotland. You can find information about smart meters and the benefits of having one installed on the Smart meters website.

You should speak to your supplier to understand all the options available to you.

Except that both of these posts refer to the old position prior to subsequent clarifications (and the supply licence conditions), and also do not refer to end-of-life meters (such as those where the certification has expired).  These statements simply refer to the rolling upgrade program and do not apply in the OP's circumstances.

Then it's high time that Ofgem discovered Plain English and decided what this week's tune is supposed to be.

CSI_Yorkshire

Gerry1 said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Gerry1 said:

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

Gerry1 said:

Areas where smart meter signals do not work

Smart meters need a signal to work. The signal comes from the Smart Metering Wide Area Network (SM-WAN). This is a national network that connects smart meters and energy suppliers. Your electricity supplier will tell you if your home can connect to the network and if not what your options are for replacing your existing meter.

If you do not want a smart meter

You can choose not to upgrade to a smart meter.  However, you may not have the same functionality as you have now, and you may also be limited with the choice of tariffs.

Energy suppliers are required to install smart meters as part of the UK government’s programme to replace older energy meters in homes and businesses across England, Wales and Scotland. You can find information about smart meters and the benefits of having one installed on the Smart meters website.

You should speak to your supplier to understand all the options available to you.

Except that both of these posts refer to the old position prior to subsequent clarifications (and the supply licence conditions), and also do not refer to end-of-life meters (such as those where the certification has expired).  These statements simply refer to the rolling upgrade program and do not apply in the OP's circumstances.

Then it's high time that Ofgem discovered Plain English and decided what this week's tune is supposed to be.

Completely agree.  Way too much of the OFGEM stuff is buried inside obscure documents that you need to know where to find and written in language that you need experience in the system to properly read.

I don't want things dumbed down as much as the mass media seem to, but accessible, understandable, accurate, and up-to-date information shouldn't be too much to ask for.