CCTV camera neighbours and the law.

Newcad

ratcatcher666 said:

.... the neighbour deliberately bangs on the wall at 6.30 am. ..... the neighbour banging on the wall  about 10 to 15 times ....

Just to note that 6:30 AM sounds quite specific, and 10-15 bangs surely can't last that long?
It does sound quite feasible that this is just someone getting up, washed, and dressed in the morning. Someone with noisy cupboards and doors.
(I can clearly hear my neighbour kitchen cupboard doors/drawers as I type this, she's cooking something).
The rest may just be escalation of arguing about that early morning banging.
Of course as is the nature of forum threads we are only hearing one side of the story here.

ratcatcher666

I read a similar case regarding a Ring Doorbell but damages were awarded againt the owner because they did not have a CCTV warning notice on their property. The newspaper report stated that if a notice had been present, no award of damages would be made, Not sure if that is correct.

ratcatcher666

DullGreyGuy said:

marcia_ said:

ratcatcher666 said:

Had five years of abuse anti social behaviour from neighbours. They have had a CPw issued by the police but the council do nothing, although they are council tenants.  I recently made a complaint tyo the ombudsman and tey were forced to do something . A mediator called today but instaead of accepting the evidence of sound recordings of banging on the wall at 6.30 am she turned her attention to my cctv camera. She said although it is only filming my rear garden she can force me to take it down as it is not fixed but movable and that because I could move it at any time. I do not but because I can she can force me to remove it.

The reason the neighbour wants it down is because it recorded her shouting abuse at us and the police issued her with a CPW.

Does anyone know the exact laws that apply. The recorder does not keep recordings but over writes thwm after approximately 7 days of recording. 

DullGreyGuy said:

marcia_ said:

 If its only recording your property nobody can make you move or remove it 

But the OP says its not just recording their back garden, its also recording sound from the neighbour's garden. 

There were a couple of cases in the last few years where owners of smart doorbells etc have been successfully sued for unlawful data processing because of the audio they are recording. 

 No they said its only recording their garden 
it read to me the audio recording is coming from in the home? 

They said: 

ratcatcher666 said:

The reason the neighbour wants it down is because it recorded her shouting abuse at us and the police issued her with a CPW.

So the outside camera is recording their neighbours noises.

In the legal case it was compounded because the owner of the camera had said it didnt record sound when it was but ultimately the judge took particular exception to the recording of sound which they said couldn't be justified under the defendant's claim of installing them to stop thieves and was unlawful (the video was lawful even though it caught some of the claimants front garden).

Whilst it was speculated that the damages would be £100,000 after the breach of the DPA was confirmed (though harassment claim dismissed) I cant actually find what the outcome was... even the written judgement says that quantum would be set when the order was handed down.  

I have repeatedly been advised, by the council and police that they can't act without evidence and repeatedly advised to record both sound and video of ASB and I have advised both that my camera records sound and video. Although the audio recordings are of very poor quality and difficult to understand most of the time. When the camera recorded the neighbour shouting abuse at me, whilst outside the front of my house, the volume of her voice must have been just at the correct level as it recorded it perfectly but most of the time it is unclear.

Therefore I have a recorder inside my house, it does not record the neighbours conversations etc but will pick up any loud noises such as banging on a wall etc.from inside my home.

With regard to DPA I thought that was an EU law relating to busineses and personal data held by them,

ratcatcher666

Just had audio recording equipment installed by the council. The security department from the council who installed it said the CCTV camera is ok, as long as I am only filming my property. I have reported the council to the Ombidsman and it  does not look good for the council. The mediator is trying to distort the facts by stating that the banging is only the neighbour going to their wardrobe and is coming back to check by banging to see if we can hear it, the neighbout claims that.they have fitted padding to the wall. They know rhat they have broken their tenancy agreement and are trying ti wriggle out of the consequences.

Just waiting to see what the neighbour will do next to harass us, once we get one thing stopped they do something else to try and annoy us.

ratcatcher666

DullGreyGuy said:

marcia_ said:

 If its only recording your property nobody can make you move or remove it 

But the OP says its not just recording their back garden, its also recording sound from the neighbour's garden. 

There were a couple of cases in the last few years where owners of smart doorbells etc have been successfully sued for unlawful data processing because of the audio they are recording. 

I read the case of the ring door bell, The owner only had damages awarded againt him because he did not display a sign stating that he had a camera fitted and was recording.  

DullGreyGuy

On the basis of the number of fines and reprimands the ICO has issued to councils and police forces I wouldnt automatically trust it just because they say its ok.

Court cases are always complex things where you have to consider all the factors, in that particular court case the person claimed to have installed the equipment to deter thieves and as such the Judge felt recording conversations from their neighbours land was excessive and unlawful and didnt further the purpose of their installation. There were also aggravating factors like telling the neighbours it wasnt recording sound.

ratcatcher666 said:
With regard to DPA I thought that was an EU law relating to busineses and personal data held by them,

DPA is a UK law, GDPR was an EU law that became a UK law upon Brexit. There are certain elements that only relate to businesses, you as a private household dont have to have a publicly available privacy policy for example, however other aspects apply to anyone. 

The classic example is that anyone has the right to request footage that captures them from you (voice or image) and you can be heavily fined if you fail to produce them, intentionally delete them to avoid providing them etc. One of the suggested mechanisms to get a neighbour to change their CCTV arrangements is to put in a weekly SAR request to them so its a constant pain for them having to provide footage where they're being captured when they dont want to be. 

ratcatcher666

DullGreyGuy said:

On the basis of the number of fines and reprimands the ICO has issued to councils and police forces I wouldnt automatically trust it just because they say its ok.

Court cases are always complex things where you have to consider all the factors, in that particular court case the person claimed to have installed the equipment to deter thieves and as such the Judge felt recording conversations from their neighbours land was excessive and unlawful and didnt further the purpose of their installation. There were also aggravating factors like telling the neighbours it wasnt recording sound.

ratcatcher666 said:
With regard to DPA I thought that was an EU law relating to busineses and personal data held by them,

DPA is a UK law, GDPR was an EU law that became a UK law upon Brexit. There are certain elements that only relate to businesses, you as a private household dont have to have a publicly available privacy policy for example, however other aspects apply to anyone. 

The classic example is that anyone has the right to request footage that captures them from you (voice or image) and you can be heavily fined if you fail to produce them, intentionally delete them to avoid providing them etc. One of the suggested mechanisms to get a neighbour to change their CCTV arrangements is to put in a weekly SAR request to them so its a constant pain for them having to provide footage where they're being captured when they dont want to be. 

Just copied this from the ICO website.

What will the ICO do if someone doesn’t follow the rules?

You can complain to us when a user of domestic CCTV doesn’t follow the rules. We can send a letter asking them to resolve things, eg put up the appropriate signage or respond to data protection requests. 

There is a limited amount of action the ICO can take after this point to make the person comply. It is highly unlikely the ICO will consider it fair or balanced to take enforcement action against a domestic CCTV user.

ratcatcher666

With regard to the request for copies of footage . I read an article that stated the owner of the CCTV equipment can request a charge for the provision of the recordings. That was several years ago and at that time it was £10.

ratcatcher666

The mediator called again today and informed me that the neighbour has installed a ring doorbell.Also advised that the neighbour has recordings of  the movement of my camera. I have nothing to worry about as it is only covering my property. The only way she can posssibly capture any movement is if she has a cctv camera or sits at the upstairs window waiting for it to move,which is very seldom and only to capture the lower end of my garden ( when I am on holiday to check the security of my property) . What a sad life some people have.

ratcatcher666

Newcad said:

ratcatcher666 said:

.... the neighbour deliberately bangs on the wall at 6.30 am. ..... the neighbour banging on the wall  about 10 to 15 times ....

Just to note that 6:30 AM sounds quite specific, and 10-15 bangs surely can't last that long?
It does sound quite feasible that this is just someone getting up, washed, and dressed in the morning. Someone with noisy cupboards and doors.
(I can clearly hear my neighbour kitchen cupboard doors/drawers as I type this, she's cooking something).
The rest may just be escalation of arguing about that early morning banging.
Of course as is the nature of forum threads we are only hearing one side of the story here.

When someone bangs in rhythm it is not an accident or normal cupboard noises. You know the sort of thing I mean bang,bang,bang,bang space.............  bang. bang.and repeated.,