Landlord taking away use of garden

Tenant26

propertyrental said:

Does that Plan relate to the freehold of the property, or is it the leashold Plan for your specific flat?

You need to be reviewing the leasehold Plan. That s what you are paying rent to occupy. In the absence of any exclusions in your tenancy agreement, you are renting the entirety of whatever the lease and leasehold plan describes.

The landlord cannot remove from your tenancy a part of the property/land without your consent.

But yes, he could serve a S21 and provided it is valid, he could get a court possession order in about, say, 3 months. He'd then have a month or two with no rent before a new tenant was installed, plus the costs of finding and vetting hat tenant, who might or might not be a reliable tenant.....

Ah I believe it is the freehold plan. There wasn’t a leasehold plan available on Land Registry - is this where I should find it? 

Thanks for your advice. 

theartfullodger

With flats in my experience there's often both a freehold & lease set of deeds. 

Tenant26

theartfullodger said:

With flats in my experience there's often both a freehold & lease set of deeds. 

The only available documents were the Title Register and Title Plan, both have the address of my flat and say freehold next to them. Would this make my point invalid, that the grass area is part of what I am renting?

JReacher1

Surely the landlord has just sent the letter to protect himself legally in case a problem happens.  In reality he probably won't care if you use this area or not.  Just if you do and the fence falls on you it is not his fault and you can't sue him

Tenant26

JReacher1 said:

Surely the landlord has just sent the letter to protect himself legally in case a problem happens.  In reality he probably won't care if you use this area or not.  Just if you do and the fence falls on you it is not his fault and you can't sue him

Unfortunately not, the notice he has put up in the communal hallway says “I have been advised to ask tenants to refrain from using the grass area. Can tenants please remove any articles they have on the land as it will be fenced off shortly.” He then later said in a message to me once I queried it, “just to be clear, no permission is given or implied to go onto the land”.

sourpuss2021

theartfullodger said:

With flats in my experience there's often both a freehold & lease set of deeds. 

OP says that the landlord owns (and built) the whole block.   So there’s no reason for there to be any leases.  

Just one freeholder…

user1977

sourpuss2021 said:

theartfullodger said:

With flats in my experience there's often both a freehold & lease set of deeds. 

OP says that the landlord owns (and built) the whole block.   So there’s no reason for there to be any leases.  

Just one freeholder…

Yes, not sure the assumption on this thread that "the demise rented to a tenant" = "the extent of a landlord's registered title" is necessarily good advice anyway.

MikeJXE

Tenant26 said:

JReacher1 said:

Surely the landlord has just sent the letter to protect himself legally in case a problem happens.  In reality he probably won't care if you use this area or not.  Just if you do and the fence falls on you it is not his fault and you can't sue him

Unfortunately not, the notice he has put up in the communal hallway says “I have been advised to ask tenants to refrain from using the grass area. Can tenants please remove any articles they have on the land as it will be fenced off shortly.” He then later said in a message to me once I queried it, “just to be clear, no permission is given or implied to go onto the land”.

So just to be clear does this also relate to the drive ? If he is going to fence off the garden it sounds like the beginning of a builders yard. 

I rent a flat which includes one parking space, does yours say that it does ? 

Tenant26

MikeJXE said:

Tenant26 said:

JReacher1 said:

Surely the landlord has just sent the letter to protect himself legally in case a problem happens.  In reality he probably won't care if you use this area or not.  Just if you do and the fence falls on you it is not his fault and you can't sue him

Unfortunately not, the notice he has put up in the communal hallway says “I have been advised to ask tenants to refrain from using the grass area. Can tenants please remove any articles they have on the land as it will be fenced off shortly.” He then later said in a message to me once I queried it, “just to be clear, no permission is given or implied to go onto the land”.

So just to be clear does this also relate to the drive ? If he is going to fence off the garden it sounds like the beginning of a builders yard. 

I rent a flat which includes one parking space, does yours say that it does ? 

No, he hasn’t mentioned the drive so as far as I am aware we can still use it. But my tenancy agreement doesn’t mention specifically that I have a parking space. 

_Penny_Dreadful

Tenant26 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Tenant26 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

I wouldn't stir up the hornets next over this.

Because the fence has come down the LL is protecting their self against a claim should someone go onto that area and injure themselves.

The fence has now been put back up and it’s back to how it was before. I just don’t see that it’s fair we are paying the same amount of rent but now unable to use the outside area. 

Is it worth upsetting the apple cart over and then getting issued a section 21 as you have said this is how your LL reacts to things he doesn't like. It's not right but until the rent reform bill passes section 21 are a nuisance for tenants and can be used inappropriately.

You could certainly push this to the extreme and get all the tenants involved ask the landlord to store his trailer elsewhere to give back the communal land you had all been used to using. If you feel that is what you want to do.

How much rent discount do you think you should get for this assumed communal area?

I don’t want to be served a Section 21 of course, but I also don’t feel he should be able to walk over us. It’s a difficult one really. I have no idea how much of a rent discount I would expect, as I say I have no clue about this sort of thing and I don’t know what would be reasonable to suggest. 

How does your current rent compare with similar properties in the area?