LBC advice for driver who 'possibly accepted guilt'

Coupon-mad

Glad you are on board!

My reply points you to read a thread where the 2022 replies on that thread explain the background.  

I am on the Govt's Private Parking Steering Group and lots has happened - much work behind the scenes that I can't go into - since the Judicial Reviews and we expect news from the DLUHC to un-withdraw the Code and publish a draft Impact Assessment this coming week (because it was said to be coming this month).

Do stick around and help this poor scammed motorist to use their case as evidence.  Plus all others you have helped!

Le_Kirk

kensiko said:

I will unfortunately have to advise them to pay this before 10th August to get it removed.

I hope they have kept a copy of the N1 claim form as that tells you/your friend "how/who to pay"  Make sure they get  receipt for the payment and send that to CCBC - unless the claimant does that.

kensiko

Hello all!

I am back just with a quick question from a recent letter after this unfortunate loss.

Just for a reminder, this thread was for a friend who started everything far too late and has already got a CCJ on record.

This is the CCJ from MCOL:


The total amount on this shows as £263.64 which I thought would be set in stone.

However, they have received the following letter which shows the total as £286.52 :


I will email them to ask what the difference is, but just thought there maybe some advice here first as to what is and is not allowed.  Can they add £22.88 after the fact for their 'time' for example?

Thanks once again!

kensiko

A fast reply from them (as they want money)!!

"The correct Judgment balance is £286.52. 

For an unknown reason, MCOL does not update with the new balance once Judgment has been entered. The different between the amount claimed and the Judgment amount is the £22.00 cost on entering Judgment and the £0.88 interest on the debt from the when the Claim was issued until Judgment had been entered."

Do any of the regulars on here know if this is true or they are talking nonsense? 'Unknown reason' sounds odd to me!  I logged onto MCOL again to see if it changed but the amount £263.64 still shows today.

All the best.

Coupon-mad

kensiko said:

A fast reply from them (as they want money)!!

"The correct Judgment balance is £286.52. 

For an unknown reason, MCOL does not update with the new balance once Judgment has been entered. The different between the amount claimed and the Judgment amount is the £22.00 cost on entering Judgment and the £0.88 interest on the debt from the when the Claim was issued until Judgment had been entered."

Do any of the regulars on here know if this is true or they are talking nonsense? 'Unknown reason' sounds odd to me!  I logged onto MCOL again to see if it changed but the amount £263.64 still shows today.

All the best.

Why not email and say you have paid more than the court has ordered 'under protest' in their portal and tell them to explain further with a final response and treat this as a formal complaint, because you will be reporting DCBLegal to the SRA for demanding more money than the certified court judgment.

Le_Kirk

Apart from doing what @Coupon-mad suggests above, what was the amount on the judgment that came from the court?

kensiko

Coupon-mad said:

Why not email and say you have paid more than the court has ordered 'under protest' in their portal and tell them to explain further with a final response and treat this as a formal complaint, because you will be reporting DCBLegal to the SRA for demanding more money than the certified court judgment.

Good point CM and this has been done.

I have had a more detailed explanation (shown below) but I still don't understand how the court order can be increased.

From what I understand below they have pursued interest costs of 88p and the cost to do that is £22.  But why does my friend need to pay this, if it it their greed grabbing 88p?

**********

"I apologise as it seems that my previous email was not very clear. The Judgment, i.e. the Court Order, is for £286.52. 

The Claim was issued on 16/06/2023 for £263.64 (£100.00 PCN, £70.00 Debt Recovery Fee, £8.64 Interest, £35.00 Court Fee & £50.00 Legal Representative Fee). 

Upon Judgment being entered, the Court allows for us to pursue costs on entering Judgment and any interest on the core debt of £170.00 (PCN + Debt Recovery Fee) from when the Claim was issued to the date that Judgment is requested. The Court fee on entering Judgment is £22.00, and the interest on £170.00 between the Claim date and Judgment request date at the Court rate of 8% is £0.88. I refer you to CPR 45.4 at https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part45-fixed-costs#rule45.4 which outlines the costs that our Client are entitled to include within the Judgment when the same is requested. The interest is claimed pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984"

1505grandad

TABLE 2

Fixed Costs on Entry of Judgment in a claim for the recovery of money or goods
	Where the amount of the judgment exceeds £25 but does not exceed £5,000	Where the amount of the judgment exceeds £5,000
Where judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service is entered under rule 12.4(1) (entry of judgment by request on claim for money only)	£22.00	£30.00

Coupon-mad

But the core debt - the parking charge on the sign - was not £170 (the false 'extortionate' £70 add-on is alleged 'damages' over and above the contract) and interest cannot be calculated from the date of parking event because the rip-off £70 came much later.

Challenge the the calculation and say you will take this serial rip-off (which affects tens of thousands of victims each year) to the SRA.

This dispute is not resolved because the added £70 is not only a clear and obvious matter of 'double recovery' that most likely doesn't go to the client but goes into the pockets of the bulk litigator (unlawfully exceeding the capped and already claimed £50 'legal fees' intended by the small claims regime) but further:

Even if that is argued, it must surely be common ground when a solicitor reviews this for DCB Legal's final response, that £170 is not 'core debt' owed to the client (parking charge only - maybe even less - could be the reduced £60 that is returned to clients under the agreement with DCBLegal keeping all the rest as bounty? Strict proof will be required).  And even that £60 or £100 can only be calculated as starting from day 29 after deemed service of the postal Notice to Keeper, not from day one.  The PCN was not 'overdue' until the day after 28 clear days and the PCN (contract) was never £170.

Try again, DCBLegal or let the SRA look at this improper enhanced calculation of purported 'costs' and interest, which affects every case filed - tens of thousands of claims per annum. Tell DCBLegal that you are well aware of the impending analysis from the DLUHC - who told this industry in February 2022 that ramping up parking charge cases to £170 amounted to 'extorting money from motorists'.

The Defendant will rely on that - and anything useful in the DLUHC's July 2023 draft Impact Assessment - for the SRA complaint, which will be made in August without further notice.

kensiko

Thanks so much for this info CM.  I have since had a further response.

Firstly, I will add a timeline and the details from the official MCOL website and the DCBL letter which I have posted as images in previous posts. 

I sent a SAR to UKPC just so I can see all letters sent (I have had these) which also told me they had passed info to ZZPS and DBCL.  I am waiting on SAR replies for both of those to confirm all dates of letters sent.

14/10/2022 - PCN issued (I have seen this from the SAR)
14/11/2022 - 'discount' payment removed, £100 due (I have seen this from the SAR)
06/12/2022 - 'final reminder' letter (I have seen this from the SAR)
Passed ZZPS and DCBL at some point during this time per the SAR from UKPC
24/03/2023 - 'debt recovery action' stated as per point 3 in the email from DCBL below (I am waiting on SAR for confirmation)
16/06/2023 - Claim issue date (as per point 1 the email below and confirmed on MCOL)
08/07/2023 - Judgement request date (as per point 1 in the email below)
10/07/2023 - Judgement issued (shown on MCOL)

Amounts shown on MCOL:
Amount claimed: £178.64
Court fee: £35
Solicitor costs: £50
TOTAL: £263.64

Amount on DCBL letter: £286.52
DCBL advised this is made up of (no pun intended):
MCOL Total £263.64
The Court fee on entering Judgment to pursue costs on any interest on the core debt of £170: £22.00
Interest on £170.00 between the Claim date (16/06/2023 as per point 1 in the email below) and Judgment request date (08/07/2023 as per point 1 in the email below) at the Court rate of 8%: £0.88
DCBL Total: £286.52


******* The DCBL email *******

1. The £0.88 interest was calculated from the Claim Issue Date (16/06/2023) to the date Judgment was requested (08/07/2023). This is interest was calculated on £170.00, as interest cannot be claimed on top of interest. 

2. Interest is payable at the Court rate set by the Court pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 and CPR 45.4. The interest rate is currently set at 8%. I'd recommend you query this with the Court should you have any further questions. 

3. The PCN was issued for £100.00 on 14/10/2022. Debt Recovery action was started on or around 24/03/2023 where the £70.00 fee became payable. The 'core debt' is what the Court state is the 'Amount Claimed', which contractually is the PCN amount and the Debt Recovery Fee and interest. 

4. The interest of £8.64 included within the Amount Claimed was calculated at 7% on £100.00 from the expiry of the 28 day payment window after the PCN (on or around 14/11/2023) [sic], and was calculated up until the date the Debt Recovery Fee was payable. Thereafter the interest was calculated on the £170.00.

******* *******

Now for the questions!!  My maths isn't the greatest so I have confirmed with online interest calculators which I hope are correct.

1. From 16/06/2023-08/07/2023 at 8% on £170 I can only get 86p not 88p!!  Not a big issue I don't suppose in the grand scheme of things, but worth noting.

2. I haven't checked with the court but for now I am assuming this 8% is actually correct.

3. This is the big one as they are advising "The 'core debt' is what the Court state is the 'Amount Claimed', which contractually is the PCN amount and the Debt Recovery Fee and interest."  This is the answer I was waiting for as this goes against the previous post from CM.  I am no legal expert but CM does usually have the correct answers , so is this worth following up with the SRA?

4. I cannot get this to match at all.  From 14/11/2022-24/03/2023 on £100 at 7% I get £2.51.  The from 25/03/2023-10/07/2023 on £170 at 7% I get £3.52 making a total of £6.03.  But as the interest of £8.64 is on the MCOL website and is part of the judgement I assume this has been checked as actually correct?

Sorry it's another long post and really isn't about the money now, the full amount including the £22.88 will be paid even with the anomalies stated above.  It's now just principal and trying to annoy them as much as possible.  So far 3 annoying emails have been sent and have been responded to very quickly.  Credit where credit is due 

Huge thanks once again for reading if you got this far.