Gatwick Drop off Zone PCN - Registered for Auto Pay No payment taken it seems - APPEAL SUCCESS (ISH)

Nuddmann

OK folks, as RK I've just received a PCN from NCP for a drop off at Gatwick airport on 21/5/23 and no payment being made however..........

The vehicle is registered for auto pay. Having just checked the account, it looks like a failure of NCP's system to take payment as no transaction is shown. The system has previously taken a payment, back in July 2022, so a drop off charge for that vehicle has previously been taken. The payment card its still valid. 

The PCN is dated 13/7/23, arrived a couple of days ago apparently (I'm currently in France) so clearly outside the timescale for keeper to be held liable under POFA. I also understand that keeper can't be held liable as it's not relevant land. 

There are no issues with unclear signage etc. because the vehicle is registered for auto pay, a step the keeper took some time ago to ensure drivers didn't forget to pay the drop off charge and get a PCN......... 

I just wanted to check for any other advice before I do the following:

1. Appeal using their portal
2. Point out to NCP that the vehicle is on the autopay system-screen shots taken of account and vehicle VRM on the account, which is the VRM to which charge has been issued. 
3. Send screen shot of previous payment taken from keeper's bank account in July 2022 for a drop off charge to show that the auto pay system has previously worked for the vehicle. 
4. Inform them that, while their "goodwill gesture" of a £15 payment given it's the first contravention for the vehicle is appreciated, it is their system at fault so they're welcome to the £5 charge that they failed to take on 21st May
5. Point out that, as I won't be naming the driver, they cannot hold me as the keeper liable for the reasons mentioned above - not relevant land and that the POFA notice is outside of the timescale to hold the keeper liable. 

Having looked at the appeal portal, there is an option for signed up for auto pay, see attached screenshot. Clearly, I can't provide evidence of payment as they didn't take it but it seems to me that option indicates they're having problems with autopay?

I'll await the thoughts of the regulars before completing the appeal. 

B789

An appeal telling them to go swivel on a sharp stick because you are appealing as the RK and they should go find the driver instead. No liability can be transferred from the driver to the RK because PoFA does not apply.

Simples...

Coupon-mad

Yes, you got it!  As long as the driver is not implied by anything you put, you win.

Nuddmann

Thanks, hoped that would be the case. Have appealed, will keep updated. For info, text of appeal below:

"The PCN has been issued in error because the vehicle has been registered with autopay since before the date of drop off, precisely to avoid the erroneous issuing of a PCN. Successful payments have previously been taken - see attached. 

NCP's autopay system failed to take payment on the day of drop off therefore the fault lies with NCP for having a defective system that failed to take payment from the autopay account. 

The payment method is still current and the vehicle still registered on the autopay system. NCP should have manually checked ANPR images against autopay customers prior to the issue of a PCN, which would have avoided the erroneous issue of the PCN. 

In addition the keeper cannot be held liable for the PCN for the following reasons:

Gatwick Airport is not classed as "relevant land" within the PoFA provisions because it is subject to airport bylaws; 

therefore in the absence of the driver's details, which will not be supplied, keeper liability does not apply. 

The notice to keeper has also been issued outside of the timescales as set down in the PoFA for keeper liability to apply; even if this were not the case, keeper liability cannot apply because of the above. 

Given that the vehicle is registered on Autopay, the keeper is willing for the £5 drop off charge to be debited from the account as NCP failed to take it on 21/5/23. 

NCP can check the autopay account in the keeper's name, with the same email as provided in this appeal to confirm the account exists in conjunction with the provided evidence. 

The "offer" of a payment of £15 is rejected, the keeper will NOT pay an inflated sum due to the failure of NCP's computer system." 

Coupon-mad

Looks fine.

Nuddmann

Ok, got a reply today, attached as redacted image, which reduces the charge to the £5 they didn't take but still insists the charge was issued correctly, hence the (ish) in the edited thread title. 

I couldn't work out if they're being arrogant or pragmatic, probably arrogant, but I've paid the fiver I owed them. 

I was almost tempted not to given their arrogance but I owe it so got the result I asked for. Thanks for checking the appeal for me. I'm just waiting for one from a tube station where their system fails to take the money 

Coupon-mad

Looks arrogant rubbish to me - why didn't they take the fiver? Anyway you paid it so it's over!

gazvinder

Nuddmann said:

Ok, got a reply today, attached as redacted image, which reduces the charge to the £5 they didn't take but still insists the charge was issued correctly, hence the (ish) in the edited thread title. 

I couldn't work out if they're being arrogant or pragmatic, probably arrogant, but I've paid the fiver I owed them. 

I was almost tempted not to given their arrogance but I owe it so got the result I asked for. Thanks for checking the appeal for me. I'm just waiting for one from a tube station where their system fails to take the money 

I also received a PCN from NCP Gatwick a few weeks ago, even though I was pre-registered with AutoPay. They also offered to reduce the PCN charge to £6. I refused to pay the PCN "charge" as I had committed a "penalty". I advised them to deduct any amounts owing using the automated Pre-Pay system. They refused to do this, so I raised the issue with POPLA & challenged the PCN. Following this, NCP dropped the Penalty Charge Notice. 

davetux

Just received three PCN's in one week for a vehicle on an autopay account! Appealed all three and received the same letter in this thread reducing the PCN to £6 but stating it was issued correctly which is utter garbage. Have paid this one and having checked my autopay account I can see they haven't taken payment for another six trips in April with this vehicle but have taken payments automatically for my other vehicle! They also invited me to take "corrective action" on my account despite in having been in place since drop off charge started with no issues! Have raised complaint with NCP and Gatwick regarding matter and told them I consider they're in breach of contract for the autopay account and I will reserve the right not to pay any further PCN's issued after 25th April 2024 as autopay account is in place for the vehicle and I simply don't have time to try and resolve issues caused by their systems or incompetence. Can't fathom why they aren't doing a manual check for vehicles that haven't paid and cross referencing with accounts as causing themselves and the drivers more aggro than if they just took the payment as authorised. Will see what happens but feels like they are just not accountable to anyone.  

Coupon-mad

Don't PAY any PCNs. You could have beaten them all just by appealing as shown in the Gatwick Heathrow Airport Drop Off Group thread. 

Very easy as long as you don't say or imply who was driving.  Works with these ones.