PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.

Leasehold Reform - Let's end the suffering

2

Comments

  • user1977 said:
    anselld said:
    There are plenty of horror stories about collective management via RTM or share of freehold.  In fact there is one at the top of the board right now.  There is also plenty of protection for Leaseholders under existing law and via the First Tier Tribunal if they care to use it.  It seems a case of the grass being greener elsewhere whereas in fact it is just different and no doubt has its own problems.  How, for example, would the "cladding crisis" be any easier to manage under commonhold or other collective ownership models?
    IF we had Commonhold prior to the cladding being put on, residents and owners would have been listened too far more than they were.
    The vast majority of cladding problems were where the cladding was installed in the first place by the developers - the type of tenure wouldn't have made any difference to everybody initially turning a blind/ignorant eye to it when they bought the flats from the builder.
    You may well be right there. I guess we’ll never really know how much more consideration would have been given to the owners of flats if they were enfranchised under Commonhold as compared to the implied deference of land occupier and developer knows best…? Certainly in the case of cladding that was put on to existing blocks - under Commonhold, I am sure residents’ voices would have been listened to and heard far more. When you have skin in the game, you damn well make sure you get the very best! But, if you defer and trust …well, we all know what happened now, don’t we….:(
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 17,444 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    user1977 said:
    anselld said:
    There are plenty of horror stories about collective management via RTM or share of freehold.  In fact there is one at the top of the board right now.  There is also plenty of protection for Leaseholders under existing law and via the First Tier Tribunal if they care to use it.  It seems a case of the grass being greener elsewhere whereas in fact it is just different and no doubt has its own problems.  How, for example, would the "cladding crisis" be any easier to manage under commonhold or other collective ownership models?
    IF we had Commonhold prior to the cladding being put on, residents and owners would have been listened too far more than they were.
    The vast majority of cladding problems were where the cladding was installed in the first place by the developers - the type of tenure wouldn't have made any difference to everybody initially turning a blind/ignorant eye to it when they bought the flats from the builder.
    You may well be right there. I guess we’ll never really know how much more consideration would have been given to the owners of flats if they were enfranchised under Commonhold as compared to the implied deference of land occupier and developer knows best…? Certainly in the case of cladding that was put on to existing blocks - under Commonhold, I am sure residents’ voices would have been listened to and heard far more. When you have skin in the game, you damn well make sure you get the very best! But, if you defer and trust …well, we all know what happened now, don’t we….:(
    I would have thought most cladding on existing blocks would have been similar to Grenfell, with a social landlord able to outvote everybody else no matter what system of tenure was in place.

    Cladding hasn't been quite as much of a problem in Scotland, but I think that's more because of a different approach to building regulations rather than anything to do with all flats being freehold.
  • TripleH
    TripleH Posts: 3,188 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Who will own the land or will it be as before, what about ground rent?
    I suspect this won't result in leaseholders owning their land but may make it easier for them to buy it especially if you have an absent freeholder.
    May you find your sister soon Helli.
    Sleep well.
  • We move to Commonhold, means there is shared use of the land. Here’s a look at what’s going on in Scotland: https://www.landcommission.gov.scot/land-reform-bill

    England and Wales deserve no less
  • I've just sold a leasehold property, when I purchased it the service charge and ground rent was £850 a year, when I sold it it had reached £3000 a year. Totally ridiculous if you ask me.

    There needs to be reform but I just couldn't see it happening that's why I sold up in the end.

    These management companies need to be regulated, that's the problem. Until they are regulated, they will answer to no one, not even the leasehold owners. 

    I had to pay £480 for a LE1 pack from my management company, again a ridiculous price.

    Personally I would never recommend that anyone buys leasehold because the management company can change anything, you may move in and pay very little service charge but 5 years later it could spiral upwards.

    To extend my lease it was upwards of £40'000.

    Thankfully I've sold the problem on.
  • MultiFuelBurner
    MultiFuelBurner Posts: 2,928 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 29 November 2023 at 12:15PM
    I've just sold a leasehold property, when I purchased it the service charge and ground rent was £850 a year, when I sold it it had reached £3000 a year. Totally ridiculous if you ask me.

    There needs to be reform but I just couldn't see it happening that's why I sold up in the end.

    These management companies need to be regulated, that's the problem. Until they are regulated, they will answer to no one, not even the leasehold owners. 

    I had to pay £480 for a LE1 pack from my management company, again a ridiculous price.

    Personally I would never recommend that anyone buys leasehold because the management company can change anything, you may move in and pay very little service charge but 5 years later it could spiral upwards.

    To extend my lease it was upwards of £40'000.

    Thankfully I've sold the problem on.
    The thing is what does that £3000 include and where is the property.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 29 November 2023 at 12:15PM
    I've just sold a leasehold property, when I purchased it the service charge and ground rent was £850 a year, when I sold it it had reached £3000 a year. Totally ridiculous if you ask me.

    There needs to be reform but I just couldn't see it happening that's why I sold up in the end.

    These management companies need to be regulated, that's the problem. Until they are regulated, they will answer to no one, not even the leasehold owners. 

    I had to pay £480 for a LE1 pack from my management company, again a ridiculous price.

    Personally I would never recommend that anyone buys leasehold because the management company can change anything, you may move in and pay very little service charge but 5 years later it could spiral upwards.

    To extend my lease it was upwards of £40'000.

    Thankfully I've sold the problem on.
    The thing is what does that £3000 include and where is the property.
    The £3000 covers windows cleaned once a month, communal areas hoovered once a week, communal gardens maintained weekly through summer months. Some of that £3000 goes towards a reserve fund for future provisions such as roofs, communal area double glazing, relaying communal car park etc. The property was in Birmingham, no lifts and not anything out of the ordinary. 
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,827 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 29 November 2023 at 12:15PM
    [Deleted User] said:

    The £3000 covers windows cleaned once a month, communal areas hoovered once a week, communal gardens maintained weekly through summer months. Some of that £3000 goes towards a reserve fund for future provisions such as roofs, communal area double glazing, relaying communal car park etc. The property was in Birmingham, no lifts and not anything out of the ordinary. 

    But just to be clear... all those things will still have to be done and paid for by the property owners if the property is commonhold.


    But the argument often is that the flat owners might be able to get better value for money (i.e. work done cheaper) than a freeholder would. So instead of £3000 per year, the costs are only £2500 per year.


    (But there's also the argument that an inexperienced group of flat owners might get fooled into hiring an incompetent company to relay the car park - which means they lose a big chunk of their money.)

  • Remember that on new builds the fleecehold is often far worse than older properties.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 29 November 2023 at 12:15PM
    eddddy said:
    [Deleted User] said:

    The £3000 covers windows cleaned once a month, communal areas hoovered once a week, communal gardens maintained weekly through summer months. Some of that £3000 goes towards a reserve fund for future provisions such as roofs, communal area double glazing, relaying communal car park etc. The property was in Birmingham, no lifts and not anything out of the ordinary. 

    But just to be clear... all those things will still have to be done and paid for by the property owners if the property is commonhold.


    But the argument often is that the flat owners might be able to get better value for money (i.e. work done cheaper) than a freeholder would. So instead of £3000 per year, the costs are only £2500 per year.


    (But there's also the argument that an inexperienced group of flat owners might get fooled into hiring an incompetent company to relay the car park - which means they lose a big chunk of their money.)

    That's true but management companies have their own interests at heart, not home owners so you never know that the figures they are quoting you are actually true or not.

    You are correct about inexperienced flat owners.

    Thankfully not a problem I have to worry about as of 2 weeks ago, what I do know from experience is that an owner in a leasehold property has no control over service charge so what they are quoted on moving in could double in 5 years with absolutely no control for the leaseholder.

    Things like other leaseholders fly tipping or reporting to the management company something that someone else could fix themselves rather than the management company paying for a fix, these are all extra unexpected costs that bump up the next years service charge. Unfortunately when you have tenants in some properties they end up costing the other homeowners because they have no regard for money and what others have to shell out.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.8K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.2K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 597.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.5K Life & Family
  • 256.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.