Leasehold Reform - Let's end the suffering

Hard_food_for_midas

user1977 said:

Hard_food_for_midas said:

anselld said:

There are plenty of horror stories about collective management via RTM or share of freehold.  In fact there is one at the top of the board right now.  There is also plenty of protection for Leaseholders under existing law and via the First Tier Tribunal if they care to use it.  It seems a case of the grass being greener elsewhere whereas in fact it is just different and no doubt has its own problems.  How, for example, would the "cladding crisis" be any easier to manage under commonhold or other collective ownership models?

IF we had Commonhold prior to the cladding being put on, residents and owners would have been listened too far more than they were.

The vast majority of cladding problems were where the cladding was installed in the first place by the developers - the type of tenure wouldn't have made any difference to everybody initially turning a blind/ignorant eye to it when they bought the flats from the builder.

You may well be right there. I guess we’ll never really know how much more consideration would have been given to the owners of flats if they were enfranchised under Commonhold as compared to the implied deference of land occupier and developer knows best…? Certainly in the case of cladding that was put on to existing blocks - under Commonhold, I am sure residents’ voices would have been listened to and heard far more. When you have skin in the game, you damn well make sure you get the very best! But, if you defer and trust …well, we all know what happened now, don’t we….:(

user1977

Hard_food_for_midas said:

user1977 said:

Hard_food_for_midas said:

anselld said:

There are plenty of horror stories about collective management via RTM or share of freehold.  In fact there is one at the top of the board right now.  There is also plenty of protection for Leaseholders under existing law and via the First Tier Tribunal if they care to use it.  It seems a case of the grass being greener elsewhere whereas in fact it is just different and no doubt has its own problems.  How, for example, would the "cladding crisis" be any easier to manage under commonhold or other collective ownership models?

IF we had Commonhold prior to the cladding being put on, residents and owners would have been listened too far more than they were.

The vast majority of cladding problems were where the cladding was installed in the first place by the developers - the type of tenure wouldn't have made any difference to everybody initially turning a blind/ignorant eye to it when they bought the flats from the builder.

You may well be right there. I guess we’ll never really know how much more consideration would have been given to the owners of flats if they were enfranchised under Commonhold as compared to the implied deference of land occupier and developer knows best…? Certainly in the case of cladding that was put on to existing blocks - under Commonhold, I am sure residents’ voices would have been listened to and heard far more. When you have skin in the game, you damn well make sure you get the very best! But, if you defer and trust …well, we all know what happened now, don’t we….:(

I would have thought most cladding on existing blocks would have been similar to Grenfell, with a social landlord able to outvote everybody else no matter what system of tenure was in place.

Cladding hasn't been quite as much of a problem in Scotland, but I think that's more because of a different approach to building regulations rather than anything to do with all flats being freehold.

TripleH

Who will own the land or will it be as before, what about ground rent?

I suspect this won't result in leaseholders owning their land but may make it easier for them to buy it especially if you have an absent freeholder.

Hard_food_for_midas

We move to Commonhold, means there is shared use of the land. Here’s a look at what’s going on in Scotland: https://www.landcommission.gov.scot/land-reform-bill

England and Wales deserve no less

[Deleted User]

I've just sold a leasehold property, when I purchased it the service charge and ground rent was £850 a year, when I sold it it had reached £3000 a year. Totally ridiculous if you ask me.

There needs to be reform but I just couldn't see it happening that's why I sold up in the end.

These management companies need to be regulated, that's the problem. Until they are regulated, they will answer to no one, not even the leasehold owners. 

I had to pay £480 for a LE1 pack from my management company, again a ridiculous price.

Personally I would never recommend that anyone buys leasehold because the management company can change anything, you may move in and pay very little service charge but 5 years later it could spiral upwards.

To extend my lease it was upwards of £40'000.

Thankfully I've sold the problem on.

MultiFuelBurner

[Deleted User] said:

I've just sold a leasehold property, when I purchased it the service charge and ground rent was £850 a year, when I sold it it had reached £3000 a year. Totally ridiculous if you ask me.

There needs to be reform but I just couldn't see it happening that's why I sold up in the end.

These management companies need to be regulated, that's the problem. Until they are regulated, they will answer to no one, not even the leasehold owners. 

I had to pay £480 for a LE1 pack from my management company, again a ridiculous price.

Personally I would never recommend that anyone buys leasehold because the management company can change anything, you may move in and pay very little service charge but 5 years later it could spiral upwards.

To extend my lease it was upwards of £40'000.

Thankfully I've sold the problem on.

The thing is what does that £3000 include and where is the property.

[Deleted User]

MultiFuelBurner said:

[Deleted User] said:

I've just sold a leasehold property, when I purchased it the service charge and ground rent was £850 a year, when I sold it it had reached £3000 a year. Totally ridiculous if you ask me.

There needs to be reform but I just couldn't see it happening that's why I sold up in the end.

These management companies need to be regulated, that's the problem. Until they are regulated, they will answer to no one, not even the leasehold owners. 

I had to pay £480 for a LE1 pack from my management company, again a ridiculous price.

Personally I would never recommend that anyone buys leasehold because the management company can change anything, you may move in and pay very little service charge but 5 years later it could spiral upwards.

To extend my lease it was upwards of £40'000.

Thankfully I've sold the problem on.

The thing is what does that £3000 include and where is the property.

The £3000 covers windows cleaned once a month, communal areas hoovered once a week, communal gardens maintained weekly through summer months. Some of that £3000 goes towards a reserve fund for future provisions such as roofs, communal area double glazing, relaying communal car park etc. The property was in Birmingham, no lifts and not anything out of the ordinary. 

eddddy

[Deleted User] said:

The £3000 covers windows cleaned once a month, communal areas hoovered once a week, communal gardens maintained weekly through summer months. Some of that £3000 goes towards a reserve fund for future provisions such as roofs, communal area double glazing, relaying communal car park etc. The property was in Birmingham, no lifts and not anything out of the ordinary. 

But just to be clear... all those things will still have to be done and paid for by the property owners if the property is commonhold.


But the argument often is that the flat owners might be able to get better value for money (i.e. work done cheaper) than a freeholder would. So instead of £3000 per year, the costs are only £2500 per year.


(But there's also the argument that an inexperienced group of flat owners might get fooled into hiring an incompetent company to relay the car park - which means they lose a big chunk of their money.)

[Deleted User]

Remember that on new builds the fleecehold is often far worse than older properties.

[Deleted User]

eddddy said:

[Deleted User] said:

The £3000 covers windows cleaned once a month, communal areas hoovered once a week, communal gardens maintained weekly through summer months. Some of that £3000 goes towards a reserve fund for future provisions such as roofs, communal area double glazing, relaying communal car park etc. The property was in Birmingham, no lifts and not anything out of the ordinary. 

But just to be clear... all those things will still have to be done and paid for by the property owners if the property is commonhold.


But the argument often is that the flat owners might be able to get better value for money (i.e. work done cheaper) than a freeholder would. So instead of £3000 per year, the costs are only £2500 per year.


(But there's also the argument that an inexperienced group of flat owners might get fooled into hiring an incompetent company to relay the car park - which means they lose a big chunk of their money.)

That's true but management companies have their own interests at heart, not home owners so you never know that the figures they are quoting you are actually true or not.

You are correct about inexperienced flat owners.

Thankfully not a problem I have to worry about as of 2 weeks ago, what I do know from experience is that an owner in a leasehold property has no control over service charge so what they are quoted on moving in could double in 5 years with absolutely no control for the leaseholder.

Things like other leaseholders fly tipping or reporting to the management company something that someone else could fix themselves rather than the management company paying for a fix, these are all extra unexpected costs that bump up the next years service charge. Unfortunately when you have tenants in some properties they end up costing the other homeowners because they have no regard for money and what others have to shell out.