Director meeting with my (ex) staff without telling me

Anythingbutbeige

I'd love some views on this.

I have a new director.  I am a head of department and took over from a colleague who managed the team interim - I've been here 6 months in the organisation.  Director is 3 months in and past the point of doing the rounds meeting staff and finding out about functions.  Recently this month the colleague has been successful in another internal role has moved on to that role, unconnected to any of the work we now do or what the director does.  She moved from the team and all is on good terms, albeit I know she was disappointed not getting the Head of role 9 months ago and I am under no illusion she will have thoughts on how I am doing.  She said she wanted to move back into staff management and I am still in regular amicable contact with her talk about how she is getting on.

I noticed a meeting in with Director and the colleague that neither told me about. It was initiated by the director and it seems to have been a meeting where the colleague was asked for feedback on how things work in the organisation - not really on me, but, again, no illusions that this also extends to how I have handled things for 6 months.

I'm annoyed that for whatever reason my director had to contact the colleague, it would have been a courtesy to say 'I want to get some feedback on her time in the team etc'.  Totally fine that she, or I, should be able to ask about anything or anyone.  My expectations are not really a chain of command thing, and if the desire is for feedback, then she should probably talk to a better placed colleague in the team to get views.  I'd kind of suggest first off, that I am the more appropriate person to ask. So does she lack confidence in what I am saying

I don't know if I am bringing transference of sneaky behaviour from other workplaces over here, but I am left feeling annoyed that this was disrespectful.  I also want to set expectations that I would expect this to happen in the future.  (I have been a director elsewhere and I think this is poor management skill.  I'd expect one of my heads of to tell me if I did something like this that they found discourteous)

How would you raise, if you would raise?
Any other thoughts round this?

Saver73

My first thought on reading your post was that there could potentially be a breach of confidentiality if the director is discussing company matters with ex staff.  

I'm not sure this forum is the best place for canvassing views on this situation.  Some of the details in this post and your previous post could fairly easily lead to people working out the organisation and people involved.

Bobbobbobingalong

Make a note of it, then move on. It sounds like you are speculating about things, that won't help you and simply increases anxiety levels.

If you have made a note of it you will be able to refer to it if needs be in the future, but until or if you need to address any issue arising from whatever this is, get on with life. It may after all be something incredibly innocent that you are over analysing.

DullGreyGuy

Saver73 said:

My first thought on reading your post was that there could potentially be a breach of confidentiality if the director is discussing company matters with ex staff.  

Which person is ex-staff? The OP said the person moved internally

Anythingbutbeige said:
 it seems to have been a meeting where the colleague was asked for feedback on how things work in the organisation - not really on me, but, again, no illusions that this also extends to how I have handled things for 6 months.

I'm annoyed that for whatever reason my director had to contact the colleague, it would have been a courtesy to say 'I want to get some feedback on her time in the team etc'.  Totally fine that she, or I, should be able to ask about anything or anyone.  My expectations are not really a chain of command thing, and if the desire is for feedback, then she should probably talk to a better placed colleague in the team to get views.  I'd kind of suggest first off, that I am the more appropriate person to ask. So does she lack confidence in what I am saying

I don't know if I am bringing transference of sneaky behaviour from other workplaces over here, but I am left feeling annoyed that this was disrespectful.  I also want to set expectations that I would expect this to happen in the future.  (I have been a director elsewhere and I think this is poor management skill.  I'd expect one of my heads of to tell me if I did something like this that they found discourteous)

How would you raise, if you would raise?
Any other thoughts round this?

How do you know what the meeting was about?

You've only been in the company 6 months, it could be the director needed to discuss something that happened 3 years ago which clearly you wont know anything/much about. You are also not your directors boss, its the other way round, they dont need your permission as to who they talk to or have to explain themselves to you. 

Even if it was about you, its not uncommon to do "360 feedback" these days so feedback is sort from those above your, below you and your peers. It's not common to let the person know it's happening, it just aligns to one of the major milestones in your annual review process (or each of them). Current client does them quarterly so start of July got several requests for feedback on people that have been working with me... some done by email, some a 15 minute meeting. 

It seems you have gotten very wound up about something that you know very little about and are jumping to conclusions. 

Anythingbutbeige

DullGreyGuy said:

Saver73 said:

My first thought on reading your post was that there could potentially be a breach of confidentiality if the director is discussing company matters with ex staff.  

Which person is ex-staff? The OP said the person moved internally

Anythingbutbeige said:
 it seems to have been a meeting where the colleague was asked for feedback on how things work in the organisation - not really on me, but, again, no illusions that this also extends to how I have handled things for 6 months.

I'm annoyed that for whatever reason my director had to contact the colleague, it would have been a courtesy to say 'I want to get some feedback on her time in the team etc'.  Totally fine that she, or I, should be able to ask about anything or anyone.  My expectations are not really a chain of command thing, and if the desire is for feedback, then she should probably talk to a better placed colleague in the team to get views.  I'd kind of suggest first off, that I am the more appropriate person to ask. So does she lack confidence in what I am saying

I don't know if I am bringing transference of sneaky behaviour from other workplaces over here, but I am left feeling annoyed that this was disrespectful.  I also want to set expectations that I would expect this to happen in the future.  (I have been a director elsewhere and I think this is poor management skill.  I'd expect one of my heads of to tell me if I did something like this that they found discourteous)

How would you raise, if you would raise?
Any other thoughts round this?

How do you know what the meeting was about?

You've only been in the company 6 months, it could be the director needed to discuss something that happened 3 years ago which clearly you wont know anything/much about. You are also not your directors boss, its the other way round, they dont need your permission as to who they talk to or have to explain themselves to you. 

Even if it was about you, its not uncommon to do "360 feedback" these days so feedback is sort from those above your, below you and your peers. It's not common to let the person know it's happening, it just aligns to one of the major milestones in your annual review process (or each of them). Current client does them quarterly so start of July got several requests for feedback on people that have been working with me... some done by email, some a 15 minute meeting. 

It seems you have gotten very wound up about something that you know very little about and are jumping to conclusions. 

Thanks for this. I am wound up.  It’s amazing how much traumatic employment practises from years ago still bite me and I can quickly make me feel pretty awful.

We don’t actually do 360 degree processes here. I think that might be a bit more transparent if it was that even in a more informal basis.  I’m not sure I’d be concerned about that either. I think I highlighted I was aware I and everyone can talk to anyone.  I could talk to her boss.  I think I would be courteous enough to say that I’m meeting them to tell them about xyz.

I was unclear above. Neither told me and I saw it in their calendars. It wasn’t listed as a private meeting.  I caught up with the colleague on something else and, without prompt, mentioned dir asked for meeting to talk about what the team did.  She only interim managed the team for 3 months, but I take your point it’s a possibility.

I’m most bothered by just not dropping me a line.  I think it’s highlighting I don’t trust this manager, and I probably needed to see better behaviours.

TELLIT01

A director of a company doesn't have to ask permission from a subordinate, or inform them, when they are having a meeting with another employee, irrespective of what the meeting is about.

theoretica

I agree with you that it seems a little odd to ask this former team member with the baggage of wanting your role about your management style - so would wonder if it might actually have been the Director finding out about the colleague.  They wanted the job you have - do they have the professionalism to move beyond their disappointment and not just whinge or present an unbalanced view?

Anythingbutbeige

TELLIT01 said:

A director of a company doesn't have to ask permission from a subordinate, or inform them, when they are having a meeting with another employee, irrespective of what the meeting is about.

I don’t think I was suggesting they ask my permission. Gosh, this massively highlights I have worked in sectors where different behaviours are expected. It’s been forever since anyone called me a subordinate.  Again, I’m a director elsewhere. I would drop a line. 

Undervalued

TELLIT01 said:

A director of a company doesn't have to ask permission from a subordinate, or inform them, when they are having a meeting with another employee, irrespective of what the meeting is about.

Exactly this.

Whilst some may consider it to be impolite or discourteous, assuming the director was acting in good faith for the company and not for some ulterior motive, I don't see that he is doing anything wrong.

Equally he might want to consult professional advisors but he is under no obligation to tell you unless he feels it is appropriate.

Maybe keep a note of what has happened, just in case, but I don't think I would raise the matter at the moment. Even then, with only six months service, you have very little job security so if the director decides your face doesn't fit you would be entitled to nothing more than your notice.

Marcon

Anythingbutbeige said:

TELLIT01 said:

A director of a company doesn't have to ask permission from a subordinate, or inform them, when they are having a meeting with another employee, irrespective of what the meeting is about.

I don’t think I was suggesting they ask my permission. Gosh, this massively highlights I have worked in sectors where different behaviours are expected. It’s been forever since anyone called me a subordinate.  Again, I’m a director elsewhere. I would drop a line. 

You might, because that's how you choose to behave/what you see as appropriate behaviour and good manners. Other people would simply see a meeting between two people (which appears to have happened with no attempt to cover it up) as just that, and 'dropping you a line', when you are pretty new to the organisation, was simply unnecessary and OTT. If a director chooses to do something they believe to be necessary, they normally just get on and do it without wasting time working out who might feel slighted if they didn't tell them they were having a chat with another party.

Anythingbutbeige said:

Director is 3 months in and past the point of doing the rounds meeting staff and finding out about functions.  

How would you raise, if you would raise?

Sensible person recognising that 3 months isn't long enough to find out all they need to know. Maybe their previous organisation did do 360 feedback? You are the one who is making this into a big deal and you'll make yourself look pretty silly if you 'raise it'.

Looking at your other post you are already very unhappy with how things are panning out: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6459463/when-increased-commuting-costs-to-get-to-work-financial-hardship/p1

You are also posting about your 'side hustles': https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6282438/log-of-side-hustles-2nd-jobs-and-what-they-paid#latest

None of this smacks of someone who is settled in their new(ish) job, or suggests that they will ever be happy there.

lincroft1710

Look on the bright side - the conversation was not about you or anything you were involved in.


Look on the dark side - perhaps the director is unhappy with your performance in your current role and was discussing offering your role to your former colleague.


Directors can talk to whichever staff they want to, they don't need to inform non-directors.


I think there is something you need to think about. You are being paid £60K a year. If your boss found out you had made such a post on a public forum, do you not think they would be wondering if you really were a suitable person for their organisation.