British Gas cancelled our direct debit in error and we now owe £400+

Scot_39

It is not unheard of for suppliers to screw up billing or payments. 

Whether you like it or not - a contract with a supplier is a 2 way deal. They agree to supply - you agree to pay - they have - and you agree you haven't.

As you yourself allude to - you need to ask some searching questions regarding your own part in this saga - and reflect on what you might reasonably expect as an outcome from persuing.

1) How many bank statements have you had in that 7 month period - and not noticed - what I suspect for most - would be a fairly significant monthly outgoing - was missing.

2) Most people requesting a DD date change - would have checked their bank statement that first month more carefully than normal - to make sure that particular transaction had happened on the new date and not the old - you didn't - but did you even think of doing so ?

3) How many actual gas bills / statements of account etc - have you recieved in that 7+ month window - and ignored the complete absence of any DD credits to account balance ?

4) Do BG give you a running balance / transaction record on your on-line account - increasing with any payments - decreasing as they produce a kWh usage bill ?

Not getting it right in Dec was BG's fault - a clear fault.

Not checking it was right immediately after the requested new transaction date, not checking for 8 months - not actually ensuring you were paying for energy as per your contract - well that sadly arguably all down to you.

You argue BG should have spotted and alerted you - but they might - and from personal experience with SP - I can assure you they might well - simply counter that you didn't spot it either. And that you haven't held up your part of the supply agreement - and actually paid them anything since.

What it said on one box on one part of their billing system - that you potentially now cannot prove - unless you have date stamped photos - and even if could may well be worthless.  As likely countered by so much other documentary evidence you also had access to such as in 1) and 3) and even online evidence - such as in 4).

There are certain rules such as back billing that protect longer term errors - but iirc that only rights off certain types of incorrrectly or unbilled debt older than 12 months. 

So AFAIK no one legally obliged to right off any of that 7m+ debt.

If I were you - and based on experience - I'd suggest the best - and its optimistic given the 7m+ time lapse since trigger fault - outcome

Forget Ombudsman.

Take the comp. Whether £30, £40 or £50

Pay the debt / bill if you can afford to - if not or if can get BG agree - they might agree to add some or all of the current debt onto DD payments - essentially allowing you upto 12 months interest free and penalty free (in terms of credit records) to clear it - by adding to revised DD.

If that new DD then not affordable, anything else probably will need a debt agreement - which would go on records.

Expecting the Ombudsmen or British Gas to do anymore - realisitic ?

Unless CA gave you a good reason to believe otherwise.

The Ombudsman isn't some sort of consumer champion / ML crusader type - it is only there to ensure fairness to both parties.  

BG asking you to pay for what you have used seems very much the definition of fair.  

And if your gripe is over a systematic billing system or IT tech failure at British Gas - and want the corporation to face some sort of corrective action or even a fine - then I suspect that is probably more something for Ofgem to address than Ombudsman.  They won't deal with individual complaints per se - but do get involved with systematic failures and regulatory breaches that may result from them.  But you are certainly not the only one to have had issues with the swap-over.

dunstonh

Direct debit is a method of payment.  Its not a contract for supply or use.

So, as mentioned previously, you will have to pay for your use.     You haven't paid the regular direct debit but you have the higher balance in your account.  So, assuming its interest-paying (as most current accounts are, albeit not great usually), you have financially benefited from this error by have money earning you interest whilst the debt with the supplier has not suffered any interest for borrowing.

If you are hoping to get some of the debt wiped out, then that isn't what happens in this scenario, over a short term period.   

Typically, you would expect a small goodwill gesture and £50 is a good figure in that respect.

Also, you are partially responsible as well.   When reconciling your bank statements, you would have spotted that.   So, either you knew what was going on and took a wait and see approach or you are awful at running your finances.

MeteredOut

Theta99waves said:

MeteredOut said:

Take the £50. You're going to have to pay for the gas you've used (there's different rules if the usage was a longer time ago), so treat it as a little bonus. BG should be able to adjust your direct debit so you can pay off what you owe over the coming months rather than expecting your to pay it one lump sum.

It's not really about the money for us. And of course we would be prepared to pay for our gas. We just find it incredibly poor that our direct debit was cancelled without our permission or knowledge, and we suspect this may have affected other customers also.

Ok, it's not about the money; tell them you don't want the £50.

I'm sure they'll apologise (if they've not already done so).

What do you want them to do? 

Theta99waves

dunstonh said:

Direct debit is a method of payment.  Its not a contract for supply or use.

So, as mentioned previously, you will have to pay for your use.     You haven't paid the regular direct debit but you have the higher balance in your account.  So, assuming its interest-paying (as most current accounts are, albeit not great usually), you have financially benefited from this error by have money earning you interest whilst the debt with the supplier has not suffered any interest for borrowing.

If you are hoping to get some of the debt wiped out, then that isn't what happens in this scenario, over a short term period.   

Typically, you would expect a small goodwill gesture and £50 is a good figure in that respect.

Also, you are partially responsible as well.   When reconciling your bank statements, you would have spotted that.   So, either you knew what was going on and took a wait and see approach or you are awful at running your finances.

I appreciate your response, but not the final sentence. Neither is true, and it doesn't have to be an 'either or' situation. You don't know the first thing about my life, or my circumstances over the past eight months. The advice without the judgement would have been appreciated.

dunstonh

Theta99waves said:

dunstonh said:

Direct debit is a method of payment.  Its not a contract for supply or use.

So, as mentioned previously, you will have to pay for your use.     You haven't paid the regular direct debit but you have the higher balance in your account.  So, assuming its interest-paying (as most current accounts are, albeit not great usually), you have financially benefited from this error by have money earning you interest whilst the debt with the supplier has not suffered any interest for borrowing.

If you are hoping to get some of the debt wiped out, then that isn't what happens in this scenario, over a short term period.   

Typically, you would expect a small goodwill gesture and £50 is a good figure in that respect.

Also, you are partially responsible as well.   When reconciling your bank statements, you would have spotted that.   So, either you knew what was going on and took a wait and see approach or you are awful at running your finances.

I appreciate your response, but not the final sentence. Neither is true, and it doesn't have to be an 'either or' situation. You don't know the first thing about my life, or my circumstances over the past eight months. The advice without the judgement would have been appreciated.

Either you knew you were not paying it or you didn't.   There is no other option apart from knowing or not knowing.

In post #1 you said:  "It is a real shock to find out that no payments have been taken for eight months." - so that does suggest you were not reconciling your bank account.

If you didn't know you were not paying it for seven months, then it indicates you are not managing your finances.   i.e. not once in that 7-8 month period did you reconcile the bank account.     You may not like that being pointed out to you but failure to reconcile your bank account for 7-8 months is not good money management.  What else is being missed?

It's not being judgemental to point out you are not running your banking well.  Don't take offence at that.  Learn from it and start running your bank accounts better.

matelodave

If the ombudsman decides that you aren't entirely blameless in this by not checking you bank account, not sending in readings and not checking you gas bill a bit more often you could end up losing the £50 that BG are offering.

I'm not sure what you want but £50 is pretty generous and you could forfeit it it if the ombudsman doesn't rule in your favour. Even if they do you probably wont get more than £50 anyway as you aren't actually out of pocket.

The money that BG should have been taking must be sitting in your account waiting for it to be paid. 

My suggestion would be to take the money and keep a closer eye on your bills and bank account in the future.

[Deleted User]

All businesses are prone to making errors. My BB provider raised an erroneous monthly bill last month for a service that had already been paid for. There is no conspiracy here. The supplier’s system failed to send out the required notification to your Bank. Personally, I would just accept the £50; enjoy a few drinks on BG and move on. The Energy Ombudsman is not there to make generous goodwill payments for what was a simple error, which as others have said was easily picked up on by looking at a Bank statement.

Mobtr

What exactly are you wanting as a resolution to this? 

debitcardmayhem

Well £50 "interest" on £400 for 8 months in a Bank account is a pretty fine result 18.75% per year, take the money or tell us a bank which gives that sort of return

Theta99waves

dunstonh said:

Theta99waves said:

dunstonh said:

Direct debit is a method of payment.  Its not a contract for supply or use.

So, as mentioned previously, you will have to pay for your use.     You haven't paid the regular direct debit but you have the higher balance in your account.  So, assuming its interest-paying (as most current accounts are, albeit not great usually), you have financially benefited from this error by have money earning you interest whilst the debt with the supplier has not suffered any interest for borrowing.

If you are hoping to get some of the debt wiped out, then that isn't what happens in this scenario, over a short term period.   

Typically, you would expect a small goodwill gesture and £50 is a good figure in that respect.

Also, you are partially responsible as well.   When reconciling your bank statements, you would have spotted that.   So, either you knew what was going on and took a wait and see approach or you are awful at running your finances.

I appreciate your response, but not the final sentence. Neither is true, and it doesn't have to be an 'either or' situation. You don't know the first thing about my life, or my circumstances over the past eight months. The advice without the judgement would have been appreciated.

Either you knew you were not paying it or you didn't.   There is no other option apart from knowing or not knowing.

In post #1 you said:  "It is a real shock to find out that no payments have been taken for eight months." - so that does suggest you were not reconciling your bank account.

If you didn't know you were not paying it for seven months, then it indicates you are not managing your finances.   i.e. not once in that 7-8 month period did you reconcile the bank account.     You may not like that being pointed out to you but failure to reconcile your bank account for 7-8 months is not good money management.  What else is being missed?

It's not being judgemental to point out you are not running your banking well.  Don't take offence at that.  Learn from it and start running your bank accounts better.

You say you are an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but does that not that mean providing impartial financial advice to people without judgement?
Again - you do not know the first thing about my life, or my personal circumstances over the past few months. Quite rightly, you haven't asked. And even had you asked - as an IFA, you shouldn't judge. Am I right?
Would you say I was "awful at running my finances" if I was sat opposite you in person? Or is it just easier to say it behind a keyboard?
Plenty of others on this thread have given constructive criticism and have got it right, even if it's not necessarily what I wanted to hear. Please learn from them.