H&M Bathlifts high cost of return postage and 're-stocking' fee

Sam_Bam

My elderly parents have bought a bath lift online from H&M Bathlifts in County Durham, via Amazon UK. 
It is too heavy for my mum to lift into the bath, so they have approached Amazon for a refund (they are within the 14 day period since they ordered it).
Amazon aren't interested, and told them to contact H&M Bathlifts.

H&M Bathlifts have said that my parents need to contact a courier company themselves, arrange all of the paperwork to send the item back, and pay for returning the item.  My parents have contacted DHL, and have paid £56 to return the item. H&M Bathlifts will not refund this cost to my parents.
H&M Bathlifts have also said that they will deduct up to £10 from the refund for the bathlift as a 're-stocking' charge. Basically a charge to put the item back in stock!

This whole process has been extremely difficult for my parents, as my dad has chronic arthritis, so filling in online forms is particularly difficult, and my mum has low vision, so cannot use the internet.

I have looked at the H&M Bathlifts website.
Their Returns Policy simply tells the customer to contact them by phone to arrange any returns. 
Their Delivery Costs section also tells the customer to contact them by phone for a quote.
Their Terms and Conditions has details about pricing errors, and a short paragraph about refunds, telling the customer to contact them by phone.
There is no mention of the customer having to arrange to have the items sent back themselves.
There is no mention of the customer having to foot the bill for returning the items.
There is no mention of the customer being charged a          're-stocking' fee to put the item back into stock.

Can somebody tell me if this is legal, please.
I am hoping that my parents are protected by the Distance Selling rules, and that they can demand a full refund, including the return postage of £56.
Many thanks
Sam Bam

elsien

Companies can charge the return costs  for change of mind, which is effectively what this is. I think the restocking fee is no longer allowed.

tightauldgit

First question would be is the item faulty or not as described in some way or is it simply that your parents decided it wasn't suitable after it was delivered? Different rules apply in either case.

Also was the purchase made with H&M Bathlifts or Amazon? If it was bought from Amazon and the contract is with Amazon then their terms would apply. If it was bought from H&M via marketplace or something then you may have a contract direct with them but you should check what terms you were informed of in the purchase order/confirmation. 

In general in a change of mind refund then the buyer has to foot the return cost, but I believe they do have to tell you this when you order (in the T&Cs) otherwise they have to pay. Equally they can charge something for handling but only if they've told you in advance. 

If they genuinely haven't informed you of any terms as part of the ordering process then I think they have to refund you in full, including any postage costs and any return costs.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

If they don't refund the full original payment speak to Amazon via the chat facility, they may refund the difference or advise if an A-Z claim can be opened. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GV38326YW5JX9V9X

Sellers can't charge a restocking fee during the initial [14 day] returns period

Regarding the return they should have told you not only that you are to bear the cost of return but also the costs of doing so (in this instance).

Their return policy should be on their seller profile (or emailed to you), the problem is enforcing it can be difficult as it's probably too small an amount to chase via small claims. if they didn't give the correct info you can point out the regs to them and see if it nudges them a bit:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(6) The contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must bear the direct cost of the consumer returning goods under paragraph (2) where paragraph (5)(b) applies.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2

SCHEDULE 2

(m)where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;

Sam_Bam

tightauldgit said:

First question would be is the item faulty or not as described in some way or is it simply that your parents decided it wasn't suitable after it was delivered? Different rules apply in either case.

Also was the purchase made with H&M Bathlifts or Amazon? If it was bought from Amazon and the contract is with Amazon then their terms would apply. If it was bought from H&M via marketplace or something then you may have a contract direct with them but you should check what terms you were informed of in the purchase order/confirmation. 

In general in a change of mind refund then the buyer has to foot the return cost, but I believe they do have to tell you this when you order (in the T&Cs) otherwise they have to pay. Equally they can charge something for handling but only if they've told you in advance. 

If they genuinely haven't informed you of any terms as part of the ordering process then I think they have to refund you in full, including any postage costs and any return costs.

Great, thanks for the advice, Tightauldgit. The T&C's, Delivery costs section and Returns/Refunds section on the H&M website are very limited, and don't mention anything about return postage or 're-stocking' fees.
At best, the way H&M have handled this return lacks a duty of care for their customer. At worst, they are taking advantage of their customer base who are, by nature of the products they sell, mainly elderly, vulnerable or both. I have found several sites online stating that 're-stocking fees' are no longer legal. Not sure if this is true, but I'm pretty positive that they cannot charge these sort of fees if not mentioned at point of sale.....

tightauldgit

Sam_Bam said:

tightauldgit said:

First question would be is the item faulty or not as described in some way or is it simply that your parents decided it wasn't suitable after it was delivered? Different rules apply in either case.

Also was the purchase made with H&M Bathlifts or Amazon? If it was bought from Amazon and the contract is with Amazon then their terms would apply. If it was bought from H&M via marketplace or something then you may have a contract direct with them but you should check what terms you were informed of in the purchase order/confirmation. 

In general in a change of mind refund then the buyer has to foot the return cost, but I believe they do have to tell you this when you order (in the T&Cs) otherwise they have to pay. Equally they can charge something for handling but only if they've told you in advance. 

If they genuinely haven't informed you of any terms as part of the ordering process then I think they have to refund you in full, including any postage costs and any return costs.

Great, thanks for the advice, Tightauldgit. The T&C's, Delivery costs section and Returns/Refunds section on the H&M website are very limited, and don't mention anything about return postage or 're-stocking' fees.
At best, the way H&M have handled this return lacks a duty of care for their customer. At worst, they are taking advantage of their customer base who are, by nature of the products they sell, mainly elderly, vulnerable or both. I have found several sites online stating that 're-stocking fees' are no longer legal. Not sure if this is true, but I'm pretty positive that they cannot charge these sort of fees if not mentioned at point of sale.....

Be careful though, unless you BOUGHT it from the H&M website (which apparently you didn't) then the terms and conditions of your purchase may well not be the ones published there. If you've bought through Amazon then it's the terms published there that will apply.

I actually have some sympathy for suppliers who want to charge restocking fees because it does cost something to send things out and have them returned and a lot of people treat online shopping like 'try before you buy' (not saying you have done this, just that it's common) but that doesn't mean they can skirt the law. 

The law nowadays seems to be based around the handling the item has experienced rather than a flat restocking fee and i think in this case it would certainly be reasonable for example that it's taken out of the box, assembled and tried without incurring any charges but i'm not a judge. 

Sam_Bam

Sellers can't charge a restocking fee during the initial [14 day] returns period

Regarding the return they should have told you not only that you are to bear the cost of return but also the costs of doing so (in this instance).

Their return policy should be on their seller profile (or emailed to you), the problem is enforcing it can be difficult as it's probably too small an amount to chase via small claims. if they didn't give the correct info you can point out the regs to them and see if it nudges them a bit:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(6) The contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must bear the direct cost of the consumer returning goods under paragraph (2) where paragraph (5)(b) applies.

Excellent advice. Thanks, the_lunatic_is_in_my_head. Will certainly go back to Amazon - their handling of this has surprised me.  

Thanks for the gov links for the legislation. As mentioned before, NOTHING is mentioned on the H&M website about returns costs, postage etc, and I have read in several places that 're-stocking fees' are not legal any more.  Will get some clarification on this from Trading Standards.  Will go back to H&M this morning on behalf of my parents.... I may be a situation where they agree to refund everything as a result of me making a fuss, and quoting the law, which maybe leaves other customers of H&M who don't make a fuss being charged for things unfairly.....

Alderbank

Yes, do go back to Amazon.

Is your lift made by Kanjo? As far as I can see all Kanjo lifts sold by H&M via Amazon are covered by Amazon's (quite generous) 30-day refund policy.

I myself have never had a problem with returns to Amazon. Friends and family who have had issues say in every case the issue is promptly resolved by speaking to a real person at Amazon.

Amazon run a tight ship with sellers who use Amazon logistic services. The main hurdle is just getting to speak with a real human being. Amazon's systems are geared to AI bots dealing with customer queries and in most cases I am sure that is fine. You might have to persevere a bit to get connected with a real customer advisor but once you are there they seem to sort the issue quickly and remind the seller of their obligations under Amazon's rules.

Sam_Bam

Alderbank said:

Yes, do go back to Amazon.

Is your lift made by Kanjo? As far as I can see all Kanjo lifts sold by H&M via Amazon are covered by Amazon's (quite generous) 30-day refund policy.

I myself have never had a problem with returns to Amazon. Friends and family who have had issues say in every case the issue is promptly resolved by speaking to a real person at Amazon.

Amazon run a tight ship with sellers who use Amazon logistic services. The main hurdle is just getting to speak with a real human being. Amazon's systems are geared to AI bots dealing with customer queries and in most cases I am sure that is fine. You might have to persevere a bit to get connected with a real customer advisor but once you are there they seem to sort the issue quickly and remind the seller of their obligations under Amazon's rules.

Thanks, Alderbank. I will go back to Amazon and I will probably get a much more satisfactory response than from H&M Bathlifts. My dad is a VERY regular Amazon Prime customer, which is why the response he got from Amazon surprised me.  Amazon are usually very helpful if the buyer is within the 30 day window.  Only problem is Amazon quite often refuse to speak about orders placed by other people, and as I'm not local to my parents, that can pose problems.  Yes, it's a Kanjo bathlift. 

Alderbank

I often think that in ordinary everyday life GDPR causes more problems than it solves. 
I can see that the usual arrangement of you both being in the same room and your father giving authority for you to speak for him would not work.

Amazon say:  

Accessibility on Amazon
We are continually working to improve the accessibility of the Amazon.co.uk store...so that our customers, including those with disabilities, can more easily and fully experience all that Amazon offers.

Go to this link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/hz/contact-us/accessibility

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Worth noting the Amazon 30 day policy is separate to the right of cancellation and requires 

Please note that you must return each item in the same condition in which you received it. This means that new items must be returned unused and undamaged. Used items must not have any additional signs of use or damage.

If OP sorted the request to return within 14 days I would stick to the 14 day right of cancellation as it is more generous than Amazon's 30 day policy in this instance due to the punishment for the trader to bear the return costs if not providing the required information