Keying Error of vehicle registration

XDA

My parents have received a NTK through the post for failing to pay for their parking duration. This was captured by ANPR and includes entry/exit times plus photos of their vehicle entering/existing.

Date of “offence” - 22/06/23
PCN Issued - 27/06/23
PCN received - Sometime between date of issue and 08/07/23 (They have been away so no idea when it actually arrived)

They did in fact pay for their parking upon arrival and still have the date & time stamped ticket that was issued by the payment meter/machine.

What appears to have happened is that they were unable to enter the full numberplate of their vehicle. I don’t know if this was user error or a problem with the machine - They are adamant that it was a machine fault as they tried various ways to enter their full numberplate but it wouldn’t let them. 

The ticket that the machine printed off is missing the final 3 characters of their numberplate. 

The parking company is a member of BPA and having looked at the BPA’s code of practice, this would be classed as a “Major keying error” which can be settled for a fee between £0-£20 to cover the PPC’s costs.

I’m loathed that they should pay the PPC anything to settle this. My parents paid in full for their parking, albeit with an incomplete registration, so what is the PPC’s actual loss?

I’ll be appealing it on their behalf. What is the best way to approach this? Appeal on the basis of a keying error and hope they don’t want their admin costs paid for? 

Umkomaas

I’ll be appealing it on their behalf.

You can't appeal 'on behalf of', the registered keeper (RK) him/herself must do that. You can write it for him/her, but always under the RK's name. 

Appeal on the basis of a keying error and hope they don’t want their admin costs paid for? 

That would be the obvious route to take.  The PPC will almost certainly want its £20 ..... if they accept it was a major keying error (they should do, but none of them is predictable). Sticks in the craw, but unless you can get the landowner to tell the PPC to cancel the charge (Plan A), this avenue is the cheapest way to 'buy' this off. 

Alternatively, the RK can appeal to POPLA (after the initial appeal to the PPC is rejected), but then you're looking at £100, not £20.  But, even if POPLA find against the RK, the decision does not compel him/her to pay the PPC. However, that opens up the probability of debt collector hounding and the possibility of a court claim at any time in the next 6 years. 

XDA

Umkomaas said:

That would be the obvious route to take.  The PPC will almost certainly want its £20 ..... if they accept it was a major keying error (they should do, but none of them is predictable). Sticks in the craw, but unless you can get the landowner to tell the PPC to cancel the charge (Plan A), this avenue is the cheapest way to 'buy' this off. 

Alternatively, the RK can appeal to POPLA (after the initial appeal to the PPC is rejected), but then you're looking at £100, not £20.  But, even if POPLA find against the RK, the decision does not compel him/her to pay the PPC. However, that opens up the probability of debt collector hounding and the possibility of a court claim at any time in the next 6 years. 

Is the notice POFA compliant?

Or this the keying error the only route to go down?  

Umkomaas said:

I’ll be appealing it on their behalf.

You can't appeal 'on behalf of', the registered keeper (RK) him/herself must do that. You can write it for him/her, but always under the RK's name. 

Sorry, I should clarify. I will write the appeal for them but under the RK’s name.

(My parents are of an age where they would struggle to submit an appeal online)

Fruitcake

What is the name of the PPC please? 
Where did the alleged event occur?

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and the keeper's MP about the faulty machine.

Plan B is an appeal to the operator and in this case a complaint about a faulty machine, and that the operator has failed to offer a reduced charge of £20 as per the BPA's CoP. Quote the CoP version and paragraph number in your combined appeal and complaint.
Whatever the result, a complaint should then be made to the BPA for this CoP failure. Several motorists have won at PoPLA for this failure.

It is up to you/your parents, but if it were me I would fight this and refuse to pay a penny. Get photos of the site and signage in advance.

Umkomaas

Is the notice POFA compliant?

Or this the keying error the only route to go down?  

The NtK is PoFA compliant.  Keying error is not the only route, but as I said, short of a landowner cancellation, it could be the quickest way to get shot of the issue. There are other avenues that would be used in a POPLA appeal (none would be accepted by the PPC at first appeal - PPCs reject everything!), but the £20 'opportunity' evaporates once it goes to POPLA. 

The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post, explains the POPLA appeals process and provides template appeal points to use.

(My parents are of an age where they would struggle to submit an appeal online)

I'm not sure if you are saying the appeal will go in by post?  If the PPC's appeals process allows that, OK, but we rarely recommend sending anything in PPC world by post - too many things to go wrong.  But if the PPC appeals process is online only, do not send a postal appeal. It will have to be done online.

If your parents are not computer comfortable/savvy, perhaps you could set up a throwaway gmail account to deal exclusively with this charge, and where you will have first access to everything the PPC delivers via email.  

Even though the appeal is done online, the PPC response is likely to be via post, so you could instruct the PPC that all future documentation, whilst obviously in the RK's name, is sent to your address (as if that's where the RK now resides). Hope that makes sense?

Coupon-mad

Don't use the Template appeal. Just write about the machine keying error and quote the Government's incoming statutory Code of Practice on 'keying errors' (which DOES NOT allow an admin fee) and tell them to honour the will of Parliament & cancel the PCN.

Which PPC?

And what's the date of the PCN?

I'd wait for the DLUHC's announcement this month first, if you can, as we are hoping for useful words to quote AND the new DLUHC Parking Code of Practice will no longer be dismissed as 'withdrawn'.

An appeal made AFTER the DLUHC revive the new Code (due this month) will have more chance of the PPC giving up, IMHO. 

XDA

Fruitcake said:

What is the name of the PPC please? 

The PPC is Premier Park.

Fruitcake said:

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and the keeper's MP about the faulty machine. 

Plan B is an appeal to the operator and in this case a complaint about a faulty machine, and that the operator has failed to offer a reduced charge of £20 as per the BPA's CoP. Quote the CoP version and paragraph number in your combined appeal and complaint. 

Whatever the result, a complaint should then be made to the BPA for this CoP failure. 

Several motorists have won at PoPLA for this failure.

 It is up to you/your parents, but if it were me I would fight this and refuse to pay a penny. Get photos of the site and signage in advance.

How do I find out who the landowner is? They were on a day trip so not likely to be back in that area again. 

They are adament that they are not paying any sort of fine or additional costs as they paid for their parking and can prove this. 

Should the appeal include the fact that there is no loss to the PPC or landowner as parking was paid for?

XDA

Umkomaas said:

The NtK is PoFA compliant.  Keying error is not the only route, but as I said, short of a landowner cancellation, it could be the quickest way to get shot of the issue. There are other avenues that would be used in a POPLA appeal (none would be accepted by the PPC at first appeal - PPCs reject everything!), but the £20 'opportunity' evaporates once it goes to POPLA. 

The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post, explains the POPLA appeals process and provides template appeal points to use.

Thanks, I'll have a read of it.

Umkomaas said:

I'm not sure if you are saying the appeal will go in by post? If the PPC's appeals process allows that, OK, but we rarely recommend sending anything in PPC world by post - too many things to go wrong. But if the PPC appeals process is online only, do not send a postal appeal. It will have to be done online. If your parents are not computer comfortable/savvy, perhaps you could set up a throwaway gmail account to deal exclusively with this charge, and where you will have first access to everything the PPC delivers via email. Even though the appeal is done online, the PPC response is likely to be via post, so you could instruct the PPC that all future documentation, whilst obviously in the RK's name, is sent to your address (as if that's where the RK now resides). Hope that makes sense?

I will be completing the appeal for them online. I have a throwaway email to use for it. Basically I have told them to leave it to me to deal with and I will oversee/manage the appeal and any future correspondence.

XDA

Coupon-mad said:

Don't use the Template appeal. Just write about the machine keying error and quote the Government's incoming statutory Code of Practice on 'keying errors' (which DOES NOT allow an admin fee) and tell them to honour the will of Parliament & cancel the PCN.

Which PPC?

And what's the date of the PCN?

I'd wait for the DLUHC's announcement this month first, if you can, as we are hoping for useful words to quote AND the new DLUHC Parking Code of Practice will no longer be dismissed as 'withdrawn'.

Am appeal made AFTER the DLUHC revive the new Code (due this month) will have more chance of the PPC giving up, IMHO. 

The PPC is Premier Park.

The Date of “offence” was 22/06/23 and the PCN was issued on 27/06/23. 

The PCN says the appeal must be submitted within 28 days (beginning on the day after it was issued) - So from my calculations that will be 25/07/23?

We're happy to wait for the DLUHC's announcement if it's before the 25th?

Coupon-mad

Should be, because it's been said publicly that it will be published before Summer Recess.  Hold fire. 

Umkomaas

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there.