Parking fine appeal help please - Fistral Beach Initial Parking

TheDefiantOne

Good afternoon,

I've been reading through the faqs and POPLa decision etc, but if I'm totally honest I'm not really managing to understand it (ADHD brain doesn't seem to be absorbing all the heavy legislation and text).

Could someone please help advise me on how to put together an appeal letter?

On the 22nd June we parked up at the Fistral Beach car park. We drove around a little to find a space, hubby jumped out to pay for parking while I sorted it out. We paid 8.50 for 5 hours. There are signs to say about being able to top up parking before leaving. We ended up staying around 7 hours, kids, lunch, packing up, etc. As we got back to the car I tried to top up on the pay machine we passed and it would not go through, just kind of timed out with no message. I tried three times with my contactless. Then my husband tried multiple times across two machines with different bank cards. Came up with a 'server down' message. Couldn't get signal to get on the app and pay that way. So when we got the server down message we decided we couldn't do anything more and we left. Took a picture of the screen when we were trying to pay to prove the time. 

Fast forward to 4th July and the hire company Arval get a PCN via email which was forwarded to my company to forward to me (long winded I know - it's a company lease car).  There are two seperate PCN's for the same occasion, with slightly different times clocked by the cameras, which is already ridiculous.

So I sent an appeal to Initial Parking (I hadn't found this forum yet). Stating that we'd seen the signs to top up, that we'd tried the app, two machines and various bank cards and it wouldn't take payment. They rejected it. So now we're wanting to appeal to POPLA but I don't know what main points to go for with it? Obviously the machines being down and lack of signal. Signage was there but terms and conditions were a whole load of tiny writing. The signs say about being able to top up later before leaving, hence we paid for 5 and then were going to add 3 hours on the way out. We have two young children, one breastfeeding and the other is autistic. I'm hoping I can appeal on that line somehow because my autistic son was having a meltdown so we couldn't really hang on any longer going back and forth, I was nursing my youngest to sleep as she was also upset. It was a HOT and LONG day.

I've read previous fistral beach one's to do with landowner contract not being clear? And something to do with signatures not having full names next to them? But that kind of confused me. 

Would REALLY appreciate any help thank you!

Umkomaas

Did Arval just send you (via your company) the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) from Initial Parking, telling you to deal with it, or did they transfer liability to the hirer via Initial Parking. Whose name appears on the letter from Initial?

Coupon-mad

Who appealed, the person named on the Notice to Hirer? 
Did the appellant admit to being the driver? I really hope you didn't.

Not sure why the driver believed it was safe to drive past the exit camera?  It wasn't.  NB: I've been to Fistral and know the exit roadway and that it's ANPR. Sadly, you were bound to get a PCN the minute the camera got that image.

And this (below) is not how to appeal to POPLA, who don't consider mitigating circumstances:

"We have two young children, one breastfeeding and the other is autistic. I'm hoping I can appeal on that line somehow because my autistic son was having a meltdown."

Easy to do a POPLA appeal though as you took a photo of the machine and might also be able to prove failed attempts to use the app.

TheDefiantOne

Umkomaas said:

Did Arval just send you (via your company) the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) from Initial Parking, telling you to deal with it, or did they transfer liability to the hirer via Initial Parking. Whose name appears on the letter from Initial?

My company received the notice to keeper which they emailed a scan over to me for. The letter just has 'the company secretary via Arval etc in address'. I received an updated notice to hirer through my company today as well which is addressed directly to my company as well. Can I share the PCN scans on here? 

They seem to have voided one of the original ones as I stated it was a duplicated, since I've only received through one updated notice to hirer.

TheDefiantOne

Coupon-mad said:

And who appealed, the person named on the Notice to Hirer?  Yes or no?

Did the appellant admit to being the driver?  WowI really hope you didn't.

Why did the driver think it was safe to drive past the exit ANPR camera?  It wasn't.  NB: I've been to Fistral several times and know the exit roadway and where the ANPR is. But you were bound to get a PCN the minute the camera got that exit image.

And this (below) is absolute categorically not how to appeal to POPLA, who don't consider mitigating circumstances:

"We have two young children, one breastfeeding and the other is autistic. I'm hoping I can appeal on that line somehow because my autistic son was having a meltdown."

Easy to do a POPLA appeal though as you took a photo of the machine and might also be able to prove failed attempts to use the app.

• I appreciate your response but I do feel as though you have been a little abrupt and condescending, neither of which is necessary. 
• I appealed as the driver and hirer of the car, but in the original appeal I did not admit to either I don't think. The original NTK had my company listed in the address for the charge, but they asked me to sort it.
• We didn't particulary think it was safe to drive out but we didn't see another option since we couldn't get the machines to accept our payment, there was no other option. I wasn't aware of the cameras - I didn't see them driving in or out and assumed since you got a ticket to display that it was a wardened car park checking tickets. 
• I obviously have not appealed by putting the paragraph you quoted me to them, that was my background within this forum to see whether I could get extra advice based on the circumstances.

Coupon-mad

Good; and I wasn't intending to be abrupt or condescending and you did nothing wrong. We are 100% on your side here but we have to jump in quickly like we are wielding a sledgehammer sometimes, to stop people saying who was driving or writing about mitigating circumstances.

The written word is never as good as a conversation eye to eye and the meaning or intended tone can be misconstrued.  I was intending to ask punchy and vital fact-finding questions, whilst being careful with my words about why you were in an unsafe position the second you drove out past an ANPR camera (that allowed them to obtain your exit image - and that image generates an auto-PCN).

Private car parks like this are always operated by ANPR. I won't elaborate but you had options in your situation. Too late now though. Win it at POPLA!

So, build a POPLA appeal based on one you find by searching the forum for:

POPLA NOTICE TO HIRER POFA

Then add in your photo evidence of the machine and write a first paragraph about that (plus proof of trying to download the app, if your phone history shows that somewhere) but written as the hirer who was 'an occupant of the car but the driver will not be admitted'.

You have a month to do it from the appeal rejection letter date, so plenty of time to read other NTH POPLA appeals that always win! 

'the company secretary via Arval etc in address'. I received an updated notice to hirer through my company today as well which is addressed directly to my company as well. Can I share the PCN scans on here? 



Yes, are you saying that you appealed in your name or as 'the company'?

TheDefiantOne

Thank you. Apologies I'm a bit emotional at this point. It feels like many things stacking up against me.

I will have a look through and draft up a Popla appeal if I can post it in here when I have a first draft please?

Coupon-mad

Who has been sent the POPLA Code though?

You as an individual or the company with you answering on their behalf?

TheDefiantOne

Oh okay, the appeal response has my details listed in it as I'm the one who responded initially