Am I legally bound by T's&C's i wasn't aware i was agreeing to ? they seem unfair.

coopso24

Ok, So i struggled to capture my issue in the discussion title properly so i'll add the full context.

I had a quote from a fencing company to replace 8 fence panels, i was happy with the quote and my response was "We'd like to go with this option, what dates would you be available? The company's response was "Thank you for your acceptance, we have processed your works onto our system. The admin team will be in touch with a date 2 weeks prior to install."  

We waited weeks but had no date from the company, In the meantime my Neighbor (who has been very understanding but was tired of looking at a broken fence) said that he knew someone who could do it immediately (and slightly cheaper) i agreed and the fence was up a week later. very happy with the work and the price. 

8 weeks after accepting the quote from the original fence company and they finally ask if they can start work in 2 weeks, I replied and said that due to lack of communication I'd gone elsewhere and no longer required their services. They replied that by accepting their quote i was bound by their T's&C's and had to pay for materials purchased for the work. 

I've refused to pay and now they are threatening me with the small claims court. 

Long story short, I have not paid anything to them, they have NOT done any work at my property and NOT supplied any materials/goods, their T's&C's do NOT give me a 14 day cooling off period nor did they ever mention one when giving the quote, I did NOT order specially made items (only standard fence panels).

This is their T's&C's that I'm supposedly bound by:

CANCELLATION

Upon acceptance of quote specially made items will be produced, including but not limited to: Panels, Gates & Trellis and non-stock items will be ordered from outside suppliers. If such items have been processed for your order and installation is cancelled, you will be liable to cover these costs and in the circumstances of cancellation being of short notice a cost will be incurred to cover labour that would have been assigned.

So my questions are, Am i bound by these T's&C's ? or because i never received a date are they not yet enforceable, Am i to believe that they could have taken all the time they want and I would still be bound by them ? and should I have been given a 14 day cooling off period and because i wasn't I get 12 months and 14 days as per Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.  

I have now sent a recorded letter officially canceling the work 

Any insight or thoughts appreciated.

Aylesbury_Duck

Sounds like you owe them for materials.  That's my take on it, but if they're taking you to court, my take is irrelevant.  Just wait and see if they do send a letter before action and then respond with your account of the situation.

What's the value here?  If small, they're probably bluffing.

tightauldgit

When you say you weren't aware of the T&Cs are you saying 'there weren't provided to you before you signed' or 'you could have read them but didn't'? 

As part of agreeing the contract you should have been at least made aware that Terms And Conditions applied and provided with the terms or a link to them/details of how to see them. That could be as simple as a line in an email saying 'please refer to our detailed terms and conditions at LINK'. If you were given the opportunity to see the terms then provided they are legal then you are bound to them. 

You should have a 14 day cooling off period as part of the contract and you should have been informed of this - is it not in the terms and conditions document somewhere? If you're sure you weren't then yes you should in theory have this cooling off period extended and can cancel now. You don't have to have been explicitly told of it - it would be enough if it was in the terms and conditions. 

Regardless of your rights - it wasn't a very good idea to agree a contract with one company to do work and then go ahead and have someone else do it without informing the original contractor. 

Brie

So you wanted them to install standard panels like probably the majority of their customers.  I can't see that you could be held responsible for the cost if they can use things elsewhere.  But I am not a lawyer.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP 

If you are breaching the contract they can claim costs or loss of profit but if they want you to pay for materials they would belong to you, they can't take the payment and keep the materials as that would be a windfall.

I think this would depend upon whether what you ordered can be used an another job, if you ordered standard sized fence panels, posts, etc (which you appear to imply) then they can simply sell them to another customer. 

Also OP how did you form this contract, is this all online, did they do a site visit and if they did when & how did they give you the quote and when & how did you agree? 

Did your quote breakdown the materials and labour? How much are they attempting to claim from you exactly?

coopso24

Thanks for the replies everyone, 

Just to clear up a few of the questions, There is no mention of a 14 day cooling off period anywhere on their site, They came to my house to look at the work that needed doing and provided all other correspondence including the quote online (via email)

No measurements were taken as it was clear that i only needed 8 full size standard fence panels (which i am fairly confident are stock items looking at the amount of fence panels they have in stock on their site pictures and could easily sell these on their next standard job)

The original quote did not breakdown materials and labour and was for £1200 + Vat, but they are now claiming just under £700 for the materials.

There is no contract per se, just their terms and conditions that you automatically agree to when you accept their quote.

It feels a little unfair that they can bind you to these T's&C's without giving you a date or timescale of when they expect to do the work i was left in limbo. 

I agree that i could have informed them sooner that we had decided to go elsewhere but by their T's&C's they could still have held me liable for the materials.

tightauldgit

coopso24 said:

Thanks for the replies everyone, 

Just to clear up a few of the questions, There is no mention of a 14 day cooling off period anywhere on their site, They came to my house to look at the work that needed doing and provided all other correspondence including the quote online (via email)

No measurements were taken as it was clear that i only needed 8 full size standard fence panels (which i am fairly confident are stock items looking at the amount of fence panels they have in stock on their site pictures and could easily sell these on their next standard job)

The original quote did not breakdown materials and labour and was for £1200 + Vat, but they are now claiming just under £700 for the materials.

There is no contract per se, just their terms and conditions that you automatically agree to when you accept their quote.

It feels a little unfair that they can bind you to these T's&C's without giving you a date or timescale of when they expect to do the work i was left in limbo. 

I agree that i could have informed them sooner that we had decided to go elsewhere but by their T's&C's they could still have held me liable for the materials.

If they're genuinely standard fence panels and they're a fencing company then I think they'd struggle to make a case for any kind of genuine loss. So if they did take you to court I don't think it would be worth their while. plus it would appear you had a right to cancel under the cooling off period anyway as it's 14 days from when you were informed of your right to cancel. 

However take it as a lesson to be a bit more careful on the small print in future. 

There's no need for them to provide a date to perform the work unless you specifically ask for one as part of the contract so you can still be bound by the terms from the point you agree the deal. 

km1500

if they did not make you aware of the terms of conditions then they cannot hold you to the contract.

simply tell them you do not agree to the terms and conditions that you have just been made aware of

saajan_12

Three issues I see - 
1) did you have the opportunity to read and agree to the T&Cs? 
--> Still somewhat unclear what you mean by "There is no contract per se, just their terms and conditions that you automatically agree to when you accept their quote.", are they the only ones saying you agreed automatically, or was there any box to tick / attachment / link to T&Cs on their website? 

2) Are the T&Cs fair? 
--> If they just never got back to you to schedule the works and years later they want to install or charge for materials, you can't be expected to wait indefinitely.
--> Ideally you would have more specificity in the T&Cs eg a horizon date when the work would be done by.
--> If not, then it would be whatever's "reasonable". Would have been better if you chased them and gave them a final opportunity to do the work by x date or you'll go with the other party, rather than saying afterwards. Yes their T&Cs would still say liability for materials, but they'd have notice to not order anything else. 
--> Without that, its debatable whether 10 weeks later is "reasonable" - 2.5 months puts you into nearly another season which is quite long for outdoor works, but then again they said they'd contact 2 weeks before, not days before so it always sounded like several weeks. 

3) What they could claim 
--> They're presumably claiming damages, but if the materials are standard and could be reused then this is minimal. They were still trying to schedule a date so no real loss of labour time. 
--> If they changed tacks to loss of profits, then £700 was already materials, £x for y days of labour, meaning the remainder to make up £1200+vat can't be huge.. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

coopso24 said:

Thanks for the replies everyone, 

Just to clear up a few of the questions, There is no mention of a 14 day cooling off period anywhere on their site, They came to my house to look at the work that needed doing and provided all other correspondence including the quote online (via email)

Thanks OP, sadly in your case I believe this is classed as an on premises contract and as such there isn't a 14 day cooling off period. 

Had you agreed there and then at your home you would have had the right to cancel.

coopso24 said:

No measurements were taken as it was clear that i only needed 8 full size standard fence panels (which i am fairly confident are stock items looking at the amount of fence panels they have in stock on their site pictures and could easily sell these on their next standard job)

Yes it does seem they'd find it hard to claim these costs whilst lessening their losses. Simply for the sake of making their life difficult have you asked if they intend to deliver the materials they want you to pay for and requesting clarification that they are being supplied at cost only as per their loses?

coopso24 said:

It feels a little unfair that they can bind you to these T's&C's without giving you a date or timescale of when they expect to do the work i was left in limbo. 

Where a timeframe for a service isn't stablished there is an implied term that the service will be carried out within a reasonable time, had this been 6 months the CRA guidance notes suggest the trader wouldn't have complied with that (allowing for a price reduction), however whether 2 months is reasonable or not is probably only something a court is going to decide. 

OP when you say they are threatening court, have they sent an official letter stating such? 

tightauldgit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

coopso24 said:

Thanks for the replies everyone, 

Just to clear up a few of the questions, There is no mention of a 14 day cooling off period anywhere on their site, They came to my house to look at the work that needed doing and provided all other correspondence including the quote online (via email)

Thanks OP, sadly in your case I believe this is classed as an on premises contract and as such there isn't a 14 day cooling off period. 

Had you agreed there and then at your home you would have had the right to cancel.

Yeah, the original OP made it seem like they had accepted the quote at the time and then had a follow up email with the details which I think would be off-premises - but if they are now saying they got a quote via email at some later point and then accepted it then you'd be right that there isn't a cancellation right.