Benefit Fraud

hildasmuriel

It's many years since I worked Fraud on benefit claims (it was still the DSS then) but we had to tell 'whistle blowers' from the start that they would never KNOW the outcome. There was just no way we could reveal benefit decisions to some random person.


Crimestoppers encourages anonymous tip offs - there is the same risk there that malicious accusations could be made. If that is allowed, I can't see them every outlawing anonymity for benefit fraud tip offs.

Newcad

hildasmuriel said:

Crimestoppers encourages anonymous tip offs - there is the same risk there that malicious accusations could be made. If that is allowed, I can't see them every outlawing anonymity for benefit fraud tip offs.

Yes both those tip-off systems are open to abuse, but I don't see them changing either.

'Big Brother' isn't watching you - He has persuaded your neighbours to to it for him, so that everyone is now suspicious of each other.

seatbeltnoob

Newcad said:

TELLIT01 said:

As you appear to have genuine concerns you really should report it.  DWP will then investigate.  If they find nothing wrong there is no harm done.

No harm done - Apart from the distress caused to genuine claimants due to mistaken (or sometimes malicious) reports (accusations) of benefit fraud/abuse when they have done nothing wrong.

Would you like to have your benefits suspended, be questioned, maybe called in for interview, etc.etc, about anonymously reported 'fraud' when you have done nothing wrong?

I have an acquaintance who's PIP has been suspended three times now due to such anonymous (malicious?) reports, each time they were proved to be unfounded.
The third one he had to go to tribunal as the DWP wrongly closed his claim altogether.
They were of the "I've seen him walk, he doesn't need a mobility scooter or disability benefit" kind of report.
Ignorance of the qualifying criteria - fueled by misleading/incorrect media reports.

let me guess.. just hated the fact they they got a disabled bay so everyone just made malicious complaint. "he can't be disabled i've seen him walk from the car to his house"

Kim1965

Having read the op, there seems plenty of reasons to suspect fraud. Report them. 

Spendless

Separate the issues. IF you have evidence that the partner lives there and it's claimed that they don't and/or the household is receiving cash in hand whilst claiming out of work benefits then report it.

Be aware that at least once upon a time you did not need a diagnosis to receive DLA for a child the likelihood of you being able to make a successful claim though would be variable. Also I wouldn't necessarily take a great deal of notice that others inc school  don't think there is a disability. My daughter suffered what I'd now call a breakdown in her mid teens -  according to her school and the MH team she was put under there was also 'nothing wrong'   now she's an adult she believes herself she has undiagnosed ADHD (no benefits involved then or now that influence our case, just an example of how things can go under the radar by professionals but the parents living can  think something isn't right but don't always get believed ) 

Exodi

Well the replies to this thread to an unexpected turn:

OP: 'I suspect someone is committing benefit fraud'
MSE: 'Snitches get stitches'

Yes they might be wrong... but they might also be right, I honestly do not understand the arguments for not reporting it...

If people should only report if they had 100% undeniable rock solid 'hand-in-the-cookie-jar' gotcha evidence, no-one would ever get found out.

p00hsticks

Exodi said:

Well the replies to this thread to an unexpected turn:

OP: 'I suspect someone is committing benefit fraud'
MSE: 'Snitches get stitches'

I've not re-read the whole thread, but I don't think anyone here has suggested that there would be any come back on the OP for reporting it - especially as it can be reported anonymously ?

The emphasis has been more on how a (potentially well-meaning) accusation can at least temporarily result in a legitimate claimant losing their benefits, and that the OP needs to be aware of that. 

Personally, I don't believe that DWP would put much (any ?) weight on a single anonymous report. They're well aware that while some are based on a well-meaning desire for social justice, many others -probably the majority - are based on a basic mis-understanding of the benefit system, prejudice, jealousy or other personal motivations. 

I think DWP have far better and more cost-effective mechanisms for detecting benefit fraud that relying on anonymous reports from the general public - the cynic in me would say that the reporting website is just there to enable such accusations to be easily made without unduly diverting any staff resources away from other work... 

Exodi

p00hsticks said:

Exodi said:

Well the replies to this thread to an unexpected turn:

OP: 'I suspect someone is committing benefit fraud'
MSE: 'Snitches get stitches'

I've not re-read the whole thread, but I don't think anyone here has suggested that there would be any come back on the OP for reporting it - especially as it can be reported anonymously ?

The emphasis has been more on how a (potentially well-meaning) accusation can at least temporarily result in a legitimate claimant losing their benefits, and that the OP needs to be aware of that. 

It was mostly tongue in cheek that people are acting as apologists for benefit fraud, but some have suggested removing anonymity to deter reporting...

I completely get the point you're making, that accusations against legitimate claimants can be damaging, this has been mentioned before in this thread:

Newcad said:

No harm done - Apart from the distress caused to genuine claimants due to mistaken (or sometimes malicious) reports (accusations) of benefit fraud/abuse when they have done nothing wrong.

But this disregards the other side, where the report was correct and a genuine cause of benefit fraud is acted upon. Unless the recommendation is that the OP should always just ignore potential crimes and do nothing in case they're wrong.

As I said above, it's virtually impossible to get '100% undeniable rock solid hand-in-the-cookie-jar gotcha evidence' and if the various crime agencies and fraud departments felt it was detrimental in the whole, they wouldn't allow anonymous tip offs.

I certainly wouldn't suggest someone does not report something, if they genuinely suspect a crime is being committed - which I thought would be the line of all MSE posters also, hence being suprised by this thread.

Pollycat said:

But how do you know if your partner's friend is telling her the truth?

How do you know they're not? Why is it any more reasonable to believe the partner's friend is lying, than the claimants? Why should the OP have to be the one to make the decision on who is lying, rather than pass it on to an arbiter who can actually look into it and decide?

Pollycat

Exodi said:

Pollycat said:

But how do you know if your partner's friend is telling her the truth?

How do you know they're not? Why is it any more reasonable to believe the partner's friend is lying, than the claimants? Why should the OP have to be the one to make the decision on who is lying, rather than pass it on to an arbiter who can actually look into it and decide?

We have totally opposite views on this.

If anyone should inform on this potential benefit fraudster, it should be the OP's partner.

It's clear that the OP is angry/jealous that this person is getting benefits:

Phate06 said:

The things they buy is astounding, I mean 2 x foreign holidays a year!!! And yet those who need help struggle.

Not a great footing from which to report someone for benefit fraud. IMHO. 

p00hsticks

Exodi said:

As I said above, it's virtually impossible to get '100% undeniable rock solid hand-in-the-cookie-jar gotcha evidence' and if the various crime agencies and fraud departments felt it was detrimental, they wouldn't allow anonymous tip offs.

I certainly wouldn't suggest someone does not report something, if they genuinely suspect a crime is being committed - which I thought would be the line of all MSE posters also, hence being suprised by this thread.

I'm absolutely for reporting cases where there is a genuine belief that there is fraud going on, although I remain unconvinced that much (any?) attention is actually paid to these anonymous reports by members of the public. 

But it is far more likely to be taken seriously if you ensure you direct your information at the right institution and don't adopt the sort of scattergun approach of accusations given in the OP.

As others have already pointed out, the benefit in question (DLA) isn't means tested, so DWP won't be interested in household income or how many holidays the people go on a year, or who is living in the household, as it's irrelevant to the claim. All that is important is whether the medical information made on the claim is correct.
 
HMRC may be interested in a report of cash in hand work, although that in itself isn't illegal as the person may still be paying tax on it.  
 
And the only organisation that I can think of that would be affected by how many people are living in the house would be the local authority if a single-person discount is being claimed for council tax.