ET case help with Schedule of Loss: Not paid wages, no contract, "dismissed" for asking for pay.

SChitmehard

Undervalued said:

Although obviously he should be paid for any work he has done, plus any accrued holiday, did you not say he was on a zero hour contract?

How then can he claim loss of earnings between jobs if he had no guarantee of any hours even when he was "employed".

With less than two years service he cannot claim for unfair dismissal and could be dismissed at any point for no reason at all. 

Unless he can demonstrate a contractual agreement for more he was only entitled to a weeks notice. Again, zero hour so of no financial value.

There is a normally strict three month (less a day) period in which to file an ET claim. It can under some circumstances be extended but that doesn't happen often. He could however make a claim for the just the wages owed in the small claims court / moneyclaim online. That can be done for up to six years (five in Scotland). There is a court fee to pay up front but that will be added to the amount owed assuming he wins.

I suspect you (he) will get a letter from the employer's solicitors threating a claim for costs if you  (he) pursues anything beyond maybe the wages due. Although costs are not often awarded at ETs it is becoming slightly more common than it was. Proceed with care!

Yes he was on a zero hours contract.

He was doing an average of 20 hours for the approx 6 weeks, so I estimated his loss of earnings based on this until he got a new job.

He claimed auto unfair dismissal due to being dismissed when asking for his pay.

Notice pay: I get that he is on zero hours, but can I not claim for the average of 20 hours worked per week as his notice pay?

He lodged an ET claim within 3 months of not being paid so he is in time and like I said it has been progressing through the ET for the last 6 months.

ET Costs: Employer refused ACAS, still has refused to pay, ignored even the courts documents for 6 months hoping he would give up so hopefully will get a costs order against them rather than claimant.

Employer claims he is not dismissed as they never gave him dismissal but they did threaten to beat him up if he kept chasing the money owed! In the alternative employer is saying they dismissed him on conduct, but again no conduct/disciplinary hearing took place. Failure to follow ACAS code on conduct would be applicable for 25% ACAS uplift or not?

I feel a bit bad not being able to help the other ex-employees that did not get paid but did not know what to do so are out of time for the ET. I know they can do CCJ, but it would have been better to launch a joint claim but I only got involved recently and the other ex-employees are out of time as it's 6 months down the line for them. This claimaint got his claim in on time so I may as well help him to get his money.

SChitmehard

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

lincroft1710

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

SChitmehard

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

I thought that would be obvious? Because in ET they will have to admit they owe money so it will make it easier if CCJ needed. But I hope they'll pay so worth it and the employer is now racking up legal bills.

I just noticed something looking at companies house, the directors opened a new company. If the old one was called Pizza Hut Ltd (as an example), the new one is called Pizza Hut (Cambridge) Ltd. Do you think they could shut down the old one and get rid of the ET case?

JCS1

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

I thought that would be obvious? Because in ET they will have to admit they owe money so it will make it easier if CCJ needed. But I hope they'll pay so worth it and the employer is now racking up legal bills.

I just noticed something looking at companies house, the directors opened a new company. If the old one was called Pizza Hut Ltd (as an example), the new one is called Pizza Hut (Cambridge) Ltd. Do you think they could shut down the old one and get rid of the ET case?

Why will they have to admin in ET they owe the money? If they don't engage in the ET there will be nothing for them to admit.

lincroft1710

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

Although obviously he should be paid for any work he has done, plus any accrued holiday, did you not say he was on a zero hour contract?

How then can he claim loss of earnings between jobs if he had no guarantee of any hours even when he was "employed".

With less than two years service he cannot claim for unfair dismissal and could be dismissed at any point for no reason at all. 

Unless he can demonstrate a contractual agreement for more he was only entitled to a weeks notice. Again, zero hour so of no financial value.

There is a normally strict three month (less a day) period in which to file an ET claim. It can under some circumstances be extended but that doesn't happen often. He could however make a claim for the just the wages owed in the small claims court / moneyclaim online. That can be done for up to six years (five in Scotland). There is a court fee to pay up front but that will be added to the amount owed assuming he wins.

I suspect you (he) will get a letter from the employer's solicitors threating a claim for costs if you  (he) pursues anything beyond maybe the wages due. Although costs are not often awarded at ETs it is becoming slightly more common than it was. Proceed with care!

Yes he was on a zero hours contract.

He was doing an average of 20 hours for the approx 6 weeks, so I estimated his loss of earnings based on this until he got a new job.

He claimed auto unfair dismissal due to being dismissed when asking for his pay.

Notice pay: I get that he is on zero hours, but can I not claim for the average of 20 hours worked per week as his notice pay?

He lodged an ET claim within 3 months of not being paid so he is in time and like I said it has been progressing through the ET for the last 6 months.

ET Costs: Employer refused ACAS, still has refused to pay, ignored even the courts documents for 6 months hoping he would give up so hopefully will get a costs order against them rather than claimant.

Employer claims he is not dismissed as they never gave him dismissal but they did threaten to beat him up if he kept chasing the money owed! In the alternative employer is saying they dismissed him on conduct, but again no conduct/disciplinary hearing took place. Failure to follow ACAS code on conduct would be applicable for 25% ACAS uplift or not?

I feel a bit bad not being able to help the other ex-employees that did not get paid but did not know what to do so are out of time for the ET. I know they can do CCJ, but it would have been better to launch a joint claim but I only got involved recently and the other ex-employees are out of time as it's 6 months down the line for them. This claimaint got his claim in on time so I may as well help him to get his money.

I don't think you (or the young man) understands what a zero hours contract is. The employee or worker has no rights to any hours other than those which are offered by the employer. The employer does not have to offer any hours whatsoever, so your friend cannot claim for loss of earnings. 


The threat of physical assault unless independently witnessed is best forgotten. I must emphasise that unless your friend has written evidence or independent witness of any wrongdoing claimed (other than failure to pay) it is likely to fail as are the spurious claims I referred to in a previous post. In fact he will be doing more harm than good in mentioning them as they will weaken his case.


One thing you should be aware of. If the employer is a limited company, the employer may well dissolve this company and set up another with a similar name. If the original company has gone, so has all hope of getting any money.

Marcon

SChitmehard said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Hi all,

A kid in my street is going to ET and I have tried to help him with his case as a litigant in person. Kid is 18 years old and is his first job.

Long story short:

Kid applies for zero hours job, gets it. He is not given a contract to take away, but they ask him to sign some documents whilst he is there but he is not sure what he signed.

Company organised work using whatsapp group for shifts. He does around 10 shifts over 2 months.

He was meant to be paid after 1 month but was not paid, kept on doing work as employer promised to pay in 2 weeks later. Not paid after 2 weeks. He asks other employees if they have been paid and tells them that he has not been paid. Employer removes him from whatapps group so now he can't get any more work, is he "dismissed" at this point? Appears that employer removed him for contacting other employees and telling them that employer has not paid him/asking if they have been paid, but the effect is that he cannot get anymore work now.

He phones employer and they refuse to pay him. and tell him they will not be paying him.

The employer has done this to a few other of his colleagues too but those colleagues have not lodged an ET case as far as I know. They are willing to be witnesses.

He has logged an ET case for automatic unfair dismissal as he was dismissed when he asked for payment.

On his schedule of loss he is claiming:

loss of wages
holiday pay
lack of contract
interview expenses for next job
compensation for being unemployed between jobs
interest

1) Is he dismissed at the point he is blocked from whatsapp? Employer is arguing not dismissed as they never told him he is dismissed so they claim he is still employed or in the alternative he is dismissed due to conduct (contacting other employees). He had a zero hours job he tells me. He does not have a contract so I can't check. 

2) Is there anything else he can claim in his schedule of loss eg ACAS uplift OR notice pay? - he has not been paid for 6 months now and employer has ignored ACAS contact.

3) Is it possible to add other people as Claimants (that didn't lodge a case) as joint Claimants? If not, how can I help those people recover their money as may be too late to lodge ET case on their behalf. This happened 6 months ago so time limit may be up or can it be extended?

Thanks.

Are you sure you're the best person to help, given your own history of employment issues eg https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6335001/sham-grievance-what-info-documents-to-request-for-appeal/p1

Setting a teenager off on what appears to be a massively overblown claim might be a worse start to the young man's working life than possibly treating it as a learning experience and moving on. Keeping a copy of anything he signs would be an excellent takeaway from all this...

Thanks for checking my history. A  few of the people in the street know about my case and one of the kids father asked for help.

The employer has refused point blank to pay him or engage with ACAS so will have to take it as far as it goes to get kids pay (it's only around £700 but he wants as much as he can get as he has student fees to pay!), and from speaking to him it appears the employer takes on young people/new arrivals to Britain, employs them for a few months, strings them along and never pays them. These people are young students or new arrivals and so do not know the law and don't have the money to take legal action and give up which is what this employer seems to rely on. I am just trying to help with the little knowledge I have to stop the employer exploiting these people since I work in social worker and helping people is the job.

I have drafted the Schedule of Loss for him, just wanting some advice if anyone can answer the above questions. And if there is any way to get money for the people that did not lodge the claim please let me know. Thanks.

What was his status: worker (which seems likely, based on what you've said) or employee? If the former, most of your reasoning (however well intentioned) is simply ill-founded. He's entitled to payment for the work done +  holiday pay but you are raising a lot of false hopes if you've not even made this simple check.

Employee on zero hours, from my checks:

Employer offered work, he had to accept a certain amount,
Employer told him when & where to work, he couldn't get someone else to do it.
Tax/NI paid by employer - although he has not received pay for his work.
Employer accepts contract of employment exists - kid says they never gave him a paper/electronic copy, and he is not sure he signed a "contract", although he did sign something when he went for interview and they offer him the job there and then. Employer says they gave him a contract. <- this is the point other employees will help with as witnesses to verify if they had been given contracts. I suspect others will not have been given contracts!

Seems like an easy enough case, but the employer ignored all contact from the kid/ACAS and probably hoped he'd give up. Now employer has hired a solicitor so I need to get some advice from you guys/read some books. Obviously the kid can't afford legal advice as the claim is £700 so legal costs would outweigh recovery. If I can get them on the lack of contract if may be worth £1-2k for him + his pay AND teach the employer a lesson.

You still don't seem to have  established whether he is a worker or an employee, or grasped that the difference is crucial. Nor has it been established that there has actually been a dismissal.

Gratifying as it is to have people seeking your advice, they aren't likely to be impressed by the outcome unless you are willing to accept you are out of your depth. You'd do far better - and so would this young man - if you suggested he talked to Citizens Advice. Their advice is free, well informed and they aren't sidetracked by notions about 'teaching the employer a lesson' - something which seemed to be a recurrent theme in some of your previous posts. It didn't serve you well then and won't serve him well now. 

One route which is worth considering is a complaint that he wasn't paid the minimum wage, which if he's worked for them and hasn't been paid at all sounds like a claim with a good prospect of success. See https://www.acas.org.uk/national-minimum-wage-entitlement/if-an-employer-does-not-pay-minimum-wage

SChitmehard

JCS1 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

lincroft1710 said:

It is preferable to go through MoneyClaimOnLine where there is actual money owed i.e. unpaid wages and holiday pay. Forget all the nonsense about "lack of contract, interview expenses for next job, compensation for being unemployed between jobs, interest". 


If the young man (FGS don't call him a "kid", at 18 he is legally an adult) wins his case and the employer refuses to pay up, employer gets a CCJ.

CCJ costs money to launch and the same effort in terms of hearings for potentially less money. ET is easier and free at this point. Employer is a small business (3 directors + 2 others) and will probably not pay up even after ET judgement so we will have an opportunity to use the CCJ later I feel anyway!

Any costs in bringing a MCOL claim are added to the claim. I understand ET cannot enforce judgement. So if you believe the employer won't pay up after ET judgement, then why waste time and effort going to an ET?

I thought that would be obvious? Because in ET they will have to admit they owe money so it will make it easier if CCJ needed. But I hope they'll pay so worth it and the employer is now racking up legal bills.

I just noticed something looking at companies house, the directors opened a new company. If the old one was called Pizza Hut Ltd (as an example), the new one is called Pizza Hut (Cambridge) Ltd. Do you think they could shut down the old one and get rid of the ET case?

Why will they have to admin in ET they owe the money? If they don't engage in the ET there will be nothing for them to admit.

They did attend a preliminary hearing and admitted they owe him money, but 2 months on they still not paid him the money even though they said in the hearing they would.

What they are trying instead is saying settle the case and then we will pay you the wages as a settlement agreement! In front of the judge they said they would pay regardless. 

SChitmehard

lincroft1710 said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

Although obviously he should be paid for any work he has done, plus any accrued holiday, did you not say he was on a zero hour contract?

How then can he claim loss of earnings between jobs if he had no guarantee of any hours even when he was "employed".

With less than two years service he cannot claim for unfair dismissal and could be dismissed at any point for no reason at all. 

Unless he can demonstrate a contractual agreement for more he was only entitled to a weeks notice. Again, zero hour so of no financial value.

There is a normally strict three month (less a day) period in which to file an ET claim. It can under some circumstances be extended but that doesn't happen often. He could however make a claim for the just the wages owed in the small claims court / moneyclaim online. That can be done for up to six years (five in Scotland). There is a court fee to pay up front but that will be added to the amount owed assuming he wins.

I suspect you (he) will get a letter from the employer's solicitors threating a claim for costs if you  (he) pursues anything beyond maybe the wages due. Although costs are not often awarded at ETs it is becoming slightly more common than it was. Proceed with care!

Yes he was on a zero hours contract.

He was doing an average of 20 hours for the approx 6 weeks, so I estimated his loss of earnings based on this until he got a new job.

He claimed auto unfair dismissal due to being dismissed when asking for his pay.

Notice pay: I get that he is on zero hours, but can I not claim for the average of 20 hours worked per week as his notice pay?

He lodged an ET claim within 3 months of not being paid so he is in time and like I said it has been progressing through the ET for the last 6 months.

ET Costs: Employer refused ACAS, still has refused to pay, ignored even the courts documents for 6 months hoping he would give up so hopefully will get a costs order against them rather than claimant.

Employer claims he is not dismissed as they never gave him dismissal but they did threaten to beat him up if he kept chasing the money owed! In the alternative employer is saying they dismissed him on conduct, but again no conduct/disciplinary hearing took place. Failure to follow ACAS code on conduct would be applicable for 25% ACAS uplift or not?

I feel a bit bad not being able to help the other ex-employees that did not get paid but did not know what to do so are out of time for the ET. I know they can do CCJ, but it would have been better to launch a joint claim but I only got involved recently and the other ex-employees are out of time as it's 6 months down the line for them. This claimaint got his claim in on time so I may as well help him to get his money.

I don't think you (or the young man) understands what a zero hours contract is. The employee or worker has no rights to any hours other than those which are offered by the employer. The employer does not have to offer any hours whatsoever, so your friend cannot claim for loss of earnings. 


The threat of physical assault unless independently witnessed is best forgotten. I must emphasise that unless your friend has written evidence or independent witness of any wrongdoing claimed (other than failure to pay) it is likely to fail as are the spurious claims I referred to in a previous post. In fact he will be doing more harm than good in mentioning them as they will weaken his case.


One thing you should be aware of. If the employer is a limited company, the employer may well dissolve this company and set up another with a similar name. If the original company has gone, so has all hope of getting any money.

OK so no loss of earnings then.

The threat to beat him up was witnessed and I have a statement and someone who will come forward to say the kid was threatened when he asked for his wages.

They have set up another company so I am keeping eye on it if they try to dissolve.

SChitmehard

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Hi all,

A kid in my street is going to ET and I have tried to help him with his case as a litigant in person. Kid is 18 years old and is his first job.

Long story short:

Kid applies for zero hours job, gets it. He is not given a contract to take away, but they ask him to sign some documents whilst he is there but he is not sure what he signed.

Company organised work using whatsapp group for shifts. He does around 10 shifts over 2 months.

He was meant to be paid after 1 month but was not paid, kept on doing work as employer promised to pay in 2 weeks later. Not paid after 2 weeks. He asks other employees if they have been paid and tells them that he has not been paid. Employer removes him from whatapps group so now he can't get any more work, is he "dismissed" at this point? Appears that employer removed him for contacting other employees and telling them that employer has not paid him/asking if they have been paid, but the effect is that he cannot get anymore work now.

He phones employer and they refuse to pay him. and tell him they will not be paying him.

The employer has done this to a few other of his colleagues too but those colleagues have not lodged an ET case as far as I know. They are willing to be witnesses.

He has logged an ET case for automatic unfair dismissal as he was dismissed when he asked for payment.

On his schedule of loss he is claiming:

loss of wages
holiday pay
lack of contract
interview expenses for next job
compensation for being unemployed between jobs
interest

1) Is he dismissed at the point he is blocked from whatsapp? Employer is arguing not dismissed as they never told him he is dismissed so they claim he is still employed or in the alternative he is dismissed due to conduct (contacting other employees). He had a zero hours job he tells me. He does not have a contract so I can't check. 

2) Is there anything else he can claim in his schedule of loss eg ACAS uplift OR notice pay? - he has not been paid for 6 months now and employer has ignored ACAS contact.

3) Is it possible to add other people as Claimants (that didn't lodge a case) as joint Claimants? If not, how can I help those people recover their money as may be too late to lodge ET case on their behalf. This happened 6 months ago so time limit may be up or can it be extended?

Thanks.

Are you sure you're the best person to help, given your own history of employment issues eg https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6335001/sham-grievance-what-info-documents-to-request-for-appeal/p1

Setting a teenager off on what appears to be a massively overblown claim might be a worse start to the young man's working life than possibly treating it as a learning experience and moving on. Keeping a copy of anything he signs would be an excellent takeaway from all this...

Thanks for checking my history. A  few of the people in the street know about my case and one of the kids father asked for help.

The employer has refused point blank to pay him or engage with ACAS so will have to take it as far as it goes to get kids pay (it's only around £700 but he wants as much as he can get as he has student fees to pay!), and from speaking to him it appears the employer takes on young people/new arrivals to Britain, employs them for a few months, strings them along and never pays them. These people are young students or new arrivals and so do not know the law and don't have the money to take legal action and give up which is what this employer seems to rely on. I am just trying to help with the little knowledge I have to stop the employer exploiting these people since I work in social worker and helping people is the job.

I have drafted the Schedule of Loss for him, just wanting some advice if anyone can answer the above questions. And if there is any way to get money for the people that did not lodge the claim please let me know. Thanks.

What was his status: worker (which seems likely, based on what you've said) or employee? If the former, most of your reasoning (however well intentioned) is simply ill-founded. He's entitled to payment for the work done +  holiday pay but you are raising a lot of false hopes if you've not even made this simple check.

Employee on zero hours, from my checks:

Employer offered work, he had to accept a certain amount,
Employer told him when & where to work, he couldn't get someone else to do it.
Tax/NI paid by employer - although he has not received pay for his work.
Employer accepts contract of employment exists - kid says they never gave him a paper/electronic copy, and he is not sure he signed a "contract", although he did sign something when he went for interview and they offer him the job there and then. Employer says they gave him a contract. <- this is the point other employees will help with as witnesses to verify if they had been given contracts. I suspect others will not have been given contracts!

Seems like an easy enough case, but the employer ignored all contact from the kid/ACAS and probably hoped he'd give up. Now employer has hired a solicitor so I need to get some advice from you guys/read some books. Obviously the kid can't afford legal advice as the claim is £700 so legal costs would outweigh recovery. If I can get them on the lack of contract if may be worth £1-2k for him + his pay AND teach the employer a lesson.

You still don't seem to have  established whether he is a worker or an employee, or grasped that the difference is crucial. Nor has it been established that there has actually been a dismissal.

Gratifying as it is to have people seeking your advice, they aren't likely to be impressed by the outcome unless you are willing to accept you are out of your depth. You'd do far better - and so would this young man - if you suggested he talked to Citizens Advice. Their advice is free, well informed and they aren't sidetracked by notions about 'teaching the employer a lesson' - something which seemed to be a recurrent theme in some of your previous posts. It didn't serve you well then and won't serve him well now. 

One route which is worth considering is a complaint that he wasn't paid the minimum wage, which if he's worked for them and hasn't been paid at all sounds like a claim with a good prospect of success. See https://www.acas.org.uk/national-minimum-wage-entitlement/if-an-employer-does-not-pay-minimum-wage

In their ET3 they do not dispute that he is an employee.

Dismissal I am not sure, I am arguing that because they cut him off the whatsapp where work was posted means that he is in REAL terms dismissed as he can't get any work now. Employer says in ET3 that he is not dismissed and if court says he is then they will argue that it's on grounds of conduct. I will say that to threaten am employee must mean he IS dismissed.

I told him to go to lawworks/uni law departments/CAB that do law clinics but he only went one time to CAB and ended up with a 2 page legal advice that he didn't know what to do with. I would prefer not to be involved as as you will know it's a lot of work (even more if you don't know what you are doing and stressful, but he can't afford legal, the Uni law depts are shut, and he doesn't seem to want to go to CAB). With the business opening another business in a similar name and the risk they may close down, plus it's only £700, plus the stress for me, I am wanting him to settle it for the £700 and be done with it. He wants to continue and wants to get as much as possible even if he has to go to ET!

Thanks for the NMW advice, I may include that in there. Also there people that did not get their claim in time may be able to use the NMW as a way to get they wages!!! Really useful advice  that makes wading through 90% of the chaff on here worth it.