HMRC "Nudge" Letter for Foreign Income -- Degiro -- Dealing with some drama

RedSwallow

Hi everyone.

Similarly to two other members of this forum I have received a nudge letter form HMRC related to a figure reported by Degiro. I have read every comment twice in the two discussions mentioned below:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6392386/hmrc-nudge-letter-foreign-income-how-to-respond/p4

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6410856/hmrc-nudge-letter-for-foreign-income-and-degiro

The issue seems to be related with how Degiro handle "cash". The way it works is as follows when funds are added to a Degiro account, this cash is invested into a fund. This had already happened in the transaction in line 41, and then when the moneys are needed to buy shares... The equivalent is sold in the fund like in line 40.

My understanding is that I should add all the transactions whose description states "Sell" as these are consider disposals. Unfortunately, this is not enough to reach the same amount that was reported by Degiro to the tax authority.

I think this might be related with one of the two:

1. Withdrawals
2. FX transactions

Regarding the withdrawals, do you think a withdrawal is considered a "Gross proceeds" when your account ends up being negative?. In the example below there was a withdrawal of 7250 which left the account in -2032. Do you think this 2032 are considered "Gross proceeds" somehow?

For the FX transactions, I suppose this is only consider as Gross proceeds if this is done not buying shares directly? like in the case above with Microsoft I understand those FX Debit and FX Credit should be ignored?

Thanks for your help.

wmb194

RedSwallow said:

Hi everyone.

Similarly to two other members of this forum I have received a nudge letter form HMRC related to a figure reported by Degiro. I have read every comment twice in the two discussions mentioned below:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6392386/hmrc-nudge-letter-foreign-income-how-to-respond/p4

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6410856/hmrc-nudge-letter-for-foreign-income-and-degiro

The issue seems to be related with how Degiro handle "cash". The way it works is as follows when funds are added to a Degiro account, this cash is invested into a fund. This had already happened in the transaction in line 41, and then when the moneys are needed to buy shares... The equivalent is sold in the fund like in line 40.

My understanding is that I should add all the transactions whose description states "Sell" as these are consider disposals. Unfortunately, this is not enough to reach the same amount that was reported by Degiro to the tax authority.

I think this might be related with one of the two:

1. Withdrawals
2. FX transactions

Regarding the withdrawals, do you think a withdrawal is considered a "Gross proceeds" when your account ends up being negative?. In the example below there was a withdrawal of 7250 which left the account in -2032. Do you think this 2032 are considered "Gross proceeds" somehow?

For the FX transactions, I suppose this is only consider as Gross proceeds if this is done not buying shares directly? like in the case above with Microsoft I understand those FX Debit and FX Credit should be ignored?

Thanks for your help.

IIRC the other posters on this subject also had problems reconciling the figures; I'd be surprised if De Giro classified a withdrawal and borrowing money (going overdrawn) as disposals. 

Could it be that De Giro reported the USD sale figure as GBP to HMRC? Obviously, in your own figures you need to make sure you've used the GBP FX credit figure as the sale proceeds figure less, although they're minuscule, those other fees if they're directly related to the transaction.