Euro Car Parks PCN to keeper; Appeal drafted. Comments gratefully taken.

TomOrrow

As keeper I’ve received a Parking Charge Notice from Euro Car Parks (ECP) for a contravention “No valid pay & display/permit was purchased” for a car being parked at an ECP pay & display at a retail park with a notorious local reputation.
It has the usual £100 fee, reduced to £60 if I run scared and pay quick, shows pics of the front and rear of the car with blown up VRN and correct entrance & exit times.
Parking payment was correctly made, ticket retained but with incomplete car reg details … 2 digits only …. always seems to be 2 digits only when supposedly miskeyed.

 I have read myself in with the Newbies stickies, and searched many threads. Seen much useful information. Some fantastic efforts put in by many. But my mind is challenged absorbing all this information and filtering the inappropriate.

I am attempting to challenge.

The PCN appears to comply with  POFA (though I’m no expert) & was received in correct time window.  The signage looks OK.

 I have attempted a cancellation via the store visited () but failed, identified site agent from site entrance notice () and landowners () and am still searching for contact details.

I have written to the local MP, contacted and received a reply from local Member of the Senedd (MS)

I have bookmarked a sticky to be prompted to respond to call for comments soon on Code of Conduct.

I have been appalled by some of the situations I’ve read and what I’ve discovered locally since my PCN.  

 I have not named the car park & town, car park agent and landowner having read the suggestions of keeping things anonymous.

I am happy to name if it helps.

 

I’ve drafted an “appeal” below (thanks for template) which ECP require within 28 days of initial correspondence…. I still have time.”

And would be grateful if anyone wished to critique it.

 

I have the following questions

 

1                 Is it the site agent or the landowner I should still try to contact first.

2                 Should I stress the ticket machine problem further in the appeal. I believe the ticket keyboard is of a crap standard as umpteen of the local issues revolve around minor or major miskeys. It’s why I’ve asked for basically an all day record of VRNs as the fault seems intermittent. The driver here is certain they were careful pressing keyboard and checked getting a response on screen. I suspect it’ll be blamed on user error.

 

 The proposed appeal;

Re PCN number  xxxxxxxxx

 

I dispute your “parking charge” as the keeper of this vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and will be making a complaint to your client landowner.

 

There will be no admissions as to who was driving the vehicle and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up of the actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the actual location on the material date.

 

I also require a a record of payments made on that day against the vehicle registration number (VRN) and the from three hours prior to the entry of this vehicle and three hours after the recorded exit. This must include all records showing partial vehicle registration numbers (VRNs)

You have already provided front and rear photographs of the vehicle with your calculated entry and exit times.

 The vehicle contained a parking ticket issued on the material date that covered full payment for the stated period.

This ticket displays a partial registration of the vehicle, which I assume mimics the way credit card payments do not give the whole credit card number on the receipt.

In order to resolve this dispute I attach a copy of this ticket.

I request you cancel the PCN.

 

Xxxxxxxx

Xxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

Coupon-mad

Looks fine.  No need to add more.

This is seen as a major keying error (even though their machine caused it!) so they will offer a £20 settlement.

I’ve drafted an “appeal” below (thanks for template) which ECP require within 28 days of initial correspondence…. I still have time.

What's the date of the PCN?  Can you wait a couple of weeks or not?   It's just that the new Statutory CoP is coming out in what looks like a couple of weeks' time and that says all keying errors must see full cancellation.

TomOrrow

Date of event = 20/6
Date issued 29/6
Date received 3/7
Hence have 28 days from presumably 29/6 according to notice, or is it a day or so later allowing for postal time?
Would give the £20 to a charity if I could appeal after the launch of the new Statutory CoP.
The retail park was Island Green, Wrexham. (I suspect maintaining anonymity of location serves no purpose here if this were the resolution)
Many thanks for the response. Appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Would give the £20 to a charity if I could appeal after the launch of the new Statutory CoP.

You can (albeit it's not the launch, it's the "home straight" if you like!).  The final decisions are due to be announced v soon.



"Hence have 28 days from presumably 29/6."

I agree.  Could be perfect!

As I see it, if the new DLUHC Code & draft Impact Assessment comes out (as promised) before Summer Recess, that will be a week before your appeal deadline and you can then robustly quote the new CoP and tell them the error is with their machine, not the driver, and you won't be paying the disingenuous £20 'reward' for machine failure that the outgoing BPA CoP pathetically allows.  Tell them you expect a professional BPA member to be complying with the newly re-published DLUHC Code immediately and cancel ALL keying errors as per clause (whatever it is in the Appeals Annex - you can look it up now because that clause won't change from the Feb 2022 version of the DLUHC Code).

TomOrrow

Thanks Coupon-Mad
Found it ...Annex F, clause F3  Appeals
I've my redrafted appeal ready and will hold fire submitting 'till closer to deadline day.
I'll post any results here, hopefully positive.

TomOrrow

False alarm this afternoon in my inbox.
 A push email from DLUHC arrived headed "Private parking code of practice: call for evidence" Page summary; The government is seeking to gather evidence to inform our review of parking charges and debt recovery fees in the private parking industry. 
Only to link to "The information on this page has been removed because it was published in error."

Ah well. I'm running out of time so I've submitted my appeal as keeper with an image of the parking ticket left on dashboard of the vehicle showing just last two letters of VRN.
extract from my appeal

. .. I note in the currently paused Private Parking Code of Practice, (CoP)published by SoS for DLUHC Mar 2022, that minor and major keying errors are combined into one category warranting full cancellation of a parking charge. (Annex F, clause F3 Appeals, paragraph a). Though this CoP is on hold due to challenges in a few areas the combining of keying errors into one category requiring cancellation of the charge is not challenged. The  full code will be implemented gradually to allow the industry time to deal with logistical challenges, but the Government  expects the industry to  align with the Code ASAP.  The British Parking Association (BPA) have contributed to this Code of Practice and are suggesting to its members clauses of the code that are easier to implement and could be introduced by its members early.  This includes the cancellation of charges for all keying errors.  Consequently I request a professional company like Euro Car Parks, as members of BPA,  to cancel this PCN without any administrative charges.

Apparently I'll hear within 35 days so hopefully the CoP will be published before then.

Coupon-mad

How funny!

I do know what is coming but can't comment.

TomOrrow

My guess is
probably the secretariat is pushing out so many updates emails (48 so far this week since parliament recess last Friday) that they've linked to the original request for comment.
I'd hope when discovering this, the up to date one will be issued.

It's been fascinating investigating the shenanigans in the background via Google. The Parking industry do appear to have circled the wagons with the discovery of BPA's Zoom meeting in early August preventing any eavesdropping.

I's almost been worth getting this parking charge to discover the realities of money grabbing car parking companies.

And I do have a gem of an anecdote to submit as evidence of how a certain company had a lovely lady running so scared of these £100 PCNs that she paid a second £10 for 5 hours parking when she'd spotted a partial reg on her first ticket bought minutes just  earlier.
Amazing what you discover when you go back to a site to get details for your own appeal!!

TomOrrow

Oh dear. Result of my appeal received . Rejected as below;
My appeal to common sense (also below) not surprisingly had zero effect.
The outcome is
- I am now an implacable opponent of PPCs
- I will support this forum where possible and assist when requested
- I will cost ECP more than any gain they get from me
- The Parkinson's Society and Sands have shared the £20 even if I now don't save that cheaty maximum permitted admin fee. But many thanks for the advice and info I have taken from this forum. 

Part of my appeal;
The implementation of the full code will be gradual to allow the industry time to adapt its signage and other logistical challenges. However the Government  expects the industry to start aligning with the Code as soon as possible. 

The British Parking Association (BPA) have contributed to this Code of Practice and are suggesting to its members clauses of the code that are easier to implement and could be introduced by their members early. 

This includes the cancellation of charges for all keying errors

I consequently request a professional company like Euro Car Parks, as members of BPA,  follow follow the advice of their professional body and cancel the PCN without any administrative charges.

The rejection;

Coupon-mad

Did they prove it was a major keying error?

TomOrrow

The yellow highlight in the rejection shows "LF" which are the last two characters of the VRN and the only characters printed on the ticket, which had been retained in the car.
The timing on the yellow highlight matches that on the ticket.
My reading of the 2020 BPA CoP says a major keying error can be "Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM".
Hence I took that as proof, not being able to evidence (or having seen) the screen  display before ticket was printed.
Was that not right?
Should I have pushed for other proof?

When I simulated buying a ticket, after receiving the PCN, the keys beeped on every touch. This feedback usually indicates successful keying. I assume the machine is fixed to beep without registering the character on occasions. The deceit makes my blood boil.

Incidentally Euro CP did not supply any of the evidence I requested (photo of entry sign, print of all VRNs including partial for 3 hours pre & post the car's parking).
Wasn't sure how to chase that to a no-reply email address and I had  an expectation communication would be difficult.

I remain willing to commit time to fight this scandalous behaviour.
Today I received a round robin letter from my Wrexham MP to all her constituents who have complained re private parking companies. (there are many apparently). She alerts to this call for evidence and appears to support her constituents rather than the industry.
Consequently I'll send an e-mail reply tonight pointing out the VIP points raised on this forum that she should be aware of when eventually voting on this matter.