energy prices to go down, but... standing charges remain

[Deleted User]

javixeneize said:

This used to be a nice forum with polite people, but now it seems to be full of know it all arrogant consultants

thank you, thank you so much for enlightening me

And thank-you too, of course, for your nice polite comments.

Spoonie_Turtle

javixeneize said:

This used to be a nice forum with polite people, but now it seems to be full of know it all arrogant consultants

thank you, thank you so much for enlightening me

To be fair the standing charges have been almost constantly 'debated' here since they first rose (with the occasional lull, until the next price cap change when it all starts up again), so much so that there is a sticky about standing charges at the top of the board - and yet people still start threads about it, despite being a waste of time and energy for the regular posters to answer it yet again.  So if people don't read that and go straight to posting a thread instead, they're unlikely to get welcoming responses

And your specific question is covered in the sticky.

javixeneize

Spoonie_Turtle said:

javixeneize said:

This used to be a nice forum with polite people, but now it seems to be full of know it all arrogant consultants

thank you, thank you so much for enlightening me

To be fair the standing charges have been almost constantly 'debated' here since they first rose (with the occasional lull, until the next price cap change when it all starts up again), so much so that there is a sticky about standing charges at the top of the board - and yet people still start threads about it, despite being a waste of time and energy for the regular posters to answer it yet again.  So if people don't read that and go straight to posting a thread instead, they're unlikely to get welcoming responses

And your specific question is covered in the sticky.

This one?

Martin has pushed Ofgem on this, to little avail, though Ofgem has recently consulted on operating costs which could impact this. Martin and MSE are responding to this consultation, but there's currently no date yet for Ofgem to report back on its findings. 

Martin challenged Chief Executive Jonathan Brearley on this issue on Good Morning Britain shortly after the new Price Cap rates were announced. 

It pretty much says the same I am doing, he is asking for answers

debitcardmayhem

javixeneize said:

This one?

Martin has pushed Ofgem on this, to little avail, though Ofgem has recently consulted on operating costs which could impact this. Martin and MSE are responding to this consultation, but there's currently no date yet for Ofgem to report back on its findings. 

Martin challenged Chief Executive Jonathan Brearley on this issue on Good Morning Britain shortly after the new Price Cap rates were announced. 

It pretty much says the same I am doing, he is asking for answers

Sadly I am afraid that OFGEM is like a chocolate teapot e.g.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-06/2023 GB FMD REGO Letter for Suppliers.pdf

Dated 1 June 2023 and near the end is says

Surely they mean the Department of Energy Security and Net Zero

Joined up Government and NGOs ....tsk tsk and you expect answers from the public on a forum?

CSI_Yorkshire

[Deleted User] said:

javixeneize said:

This used to be a nice forum with polite people, but now it seems to be full of know it all arrogant consultants

thank you, thank you so much for enlightening me

And thank-you too, of course, for your nice polite comments.

People often turn out to be delightfully charming when their crusades are met with less-than-unconditional support.

Funny how some come to ask for advice, then complain that the advice-givers are know-it-alls.  Isn't that kind of the point? Or do we prefer ill-informed advice now?

MattMattMattUK

CSI_Yorkshire said:

[Deleted User] said:

javixeneize said:

This used to be a nice forum with polite people, but now it seems to be full of know it all arrogant consultants

thank you, thank you so much for enlightening me

And thank-you too, of course, for your nice polite comments.

People often turn out to be delightfully charming when their crusades are met with less-than-unconditional support.

Funny how some come to ask for advice, then complain that the advice-givers are know-it-alls.  Isn't that kind of the point? Or do we prefer ill-informed advice now?

Despite their initial claims they do not want advice or facts, they want validation.

dunstonh

Good grief! Now before I go on let me say that with solar panels etc. I have no problems paying my energy bills. But let me be as patronising to you as you were to the OP. It's amazing, in a world where some food bank recipients request food that doesn't need to be cooked, that you have a complete lack of imagination as to how other people live.

Talk about going off on an extreme tangent.

If you have little money and manage to get your daily consumption down to say 3kWh, then a 60p standing charge adds 20p to each unit.

If you are comfortable and use 20 units then the standing charge component to add is only 3p per unit.

Supply infrastructure is one thing.  Consumption is another. Whether you use 20kWh a day or 2kWh a day, you still need that infrastructure. 

Do let me know if you find that difficult. The low user will still be contributing via their unit costs, but it seems you prefer regressive pricing regimes.   

Cross subsidy from consumption would be regressive.  It would also allow those with wealth and the ability to install solar, for example, to get away with paying little or nothing towards the infrastructure that they still rely on. 

Chrysalis

I think its a bit vague to say grid costs are increasing, Ofgem have made a decision they prefer to have costs on SC than unit rate.

Some stuff that was funded via unit rates got moved to SC.

Some new stuff is funded via SC.

Also recently came out in the open, that the gov paying the green levies might be footed by customers again, unclear at this point if this will go on SC or not or if gov will put it back on general taxation.  Suppliers are trying to get them back on general taxation, as is jacob rees-mog.

bristolleedsfan

Chrysalis said:

Also recently came out in the open, that the gov paying the green levies might be footed by customers again, unclear at this point if this will go on SC or not or if gov will put it back on general taxation.  Suppliers are trying to get them back on general taxation, as is jacob rees-mog.

Total guess by me that green levies have been incorporated within July price cap which is why price cap has not fallen as much as might have been expected.

https://inews.co.uk/news/fuel-poverty-green-levies-taxes-energy-bills-campaigners-2448649

Scot_39

Chrysalis said:

I think its a bit vague to say grid costs are increasing, Ofgem have made a decision they prefer to have costs on SC than unit rate.

Some stuff that was funded via unit rates got moved to SC.

Some new stuff is funded via SC.

Also recently came out in the open, that the gov paying the green levies might be footed by customers again, unclear at this point if this will go on SC or not or if gov will put it back on general taxation.  Suppliers are trying to get them back on general taxation, as is jacob rees-mog.

The answer is of course a mix of both.

Policy and expansion costs.

The electricity grid in particular is seeing £bns in new investment.  To hook up to new renewables - often 100s of miles from market - and too little grid capacity to support current let alone new c16GW of solar or wind farms in last 2 auctions for 2023-2027 delivery.

New overhead and ground lines, upgrades to existing route power line capacity, new uk to uk hvdc links like egl1 and egl2 Scotland to England, islands to mainland and ne mainland to link with egl2 in Aberdeenshire etc.

Many of them - running years behind the renewables field license supply dates.

And many projects being further delayed by environmental/green lobby groups, nimbys and local councils backing them.

Energy Security needs to be taken far more seriously.  The days when even just 1 NIMBY or minority pressue group can delay projects benefitting 100,000s or even all 67 million in this land even if only in a macro economic context - needs to stop.

The world doesn't owe us a living or subsidy - we as a nation cannot afford the pervasive liberal idealism of the minority.

And especially the poor - even the working poor - let alone millions more on benefits and minimal pensions - cannot afford their idealism.