Key meter rates

metman1

Hi , I have a standard electric pre pay meter. Cannot upgrade to smart key meter because wiring to flat not up to standard. How will July 1st changes to rate be applied? And I also have night storage heaters which should be on Economy 7 rate but cannot be applied to a key meter,hence I am paying same rate all day? Catch 22 cannot change to monthly direct debit smart meter because landlord says I would be liable for the cost of having wiring upgraded before this can happen ,which I'm not prepared to do .

Gerry1

Welcome to the forum.

If you are on an E7 tariff then ALL electricity usage by the property at the off peak times will be charged at the lower rate regardless of the circuit used.  If your NSHs are not switched automatically then any daytime charging will be at the very expensive day rate.

If the NSHs are the plain old Box of Bricks type with just Input and Output knobs then they're almost certainly switched automatically by the meter, unless it was a really bodged installation.

Modern High Heat Retention NSHs such Dimplex Quantum ideally need two supplies (one 24h, one switched by the meter) but can be programmed to work from a single 24h supply.  However, to avoid huge bills great care must be taken to ensure that it's shadowing the meter's actual times, not merely its rumoured or published times.

Changing to a credit meter should not depend on the circuit wiring but it should be a 5-terminal device, i.e. one that allows a switched output to be used with NSHs. If your system isn't wired optimally then you should be no worse off than at present.  However, your landlord might expect you to have any new meter changed to back to pre-payment if you move out.

metman1

Thanks for your info . Yes my NSHs are old box of bricks type, so can i assume i pay the lower night rate then ?.  I read that old key meters can not handle two different tariffs ?

Gerry1

Never had a prepayment meter so I can't speak from experience.   Look at your bills if you get them or at your online account if you have one. Otherwise just ask your supplier to confirm the name of your tariff.

If you are on an E7 tariff then the rate changes affect all consumption: when working out the cost, the meter doesn't care which circuits are used.

What happens of you turn the input control to maximum in the middle of the day?  If the NSH starts to warm up before it gets dark then you have an expensive problem (unless you switch the NSHs on when cheap rate starts and off when it ends).

If your NSHs are on switched circuits, as they should be, then I can't see why you can't change to a normal credit meter. However, landlords often prefer to have prepayment meters in case a tenant moves out and doesn't pay the final bill or gives a deliberately low final reading.  Not saying this applies to you of course, but it may explain the landlord's reluctance to agree, or the landlord may not understand how NSH wiring and E7 is supposed to work.

QrizB

metman1 said:

Hi , I have a standard electric pre pay meter. Cannot upgrade to smart key meter because wiring to flat not up to standard. .. landlord says I would be liable for the cost of having wiring upgraded before this can happen

If your wiring is unsafe (rather than just old) your landlord is responsible for bringing it up to standard.

Would you be able to share a photo of your meter and the wiring, so we can see what the problem is?

metman1 said:

How will July 1st changes to rate be applied?

Does your meter have a key which you top up at eg. a corner shop? If so, it's likely that the tariff information is stored on the key and will be updated when you next rop up.

metman1 said:

 And I also have night storage heaters which should be on Economy 7 rate but cannot be applied to a key meter,hence I am paying same rate all day?

It's quite possible to have Economy 7 with two rates on a key meter. Your meter should have a button that you can press to make it display rate information, as well as your remaining credit balance.

Gerry1

Make sure you are using your Box of Bricks optimally.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UeB3Xf_qKvA

Marvel1

metman1 said:

Hi , I have a standard electric pre pay meter. Cannot upgrade to smart key meter because wiring to flat not up to standard. How will July 1st changes to rate be applied? 

Top up and and the key will register the new rates.

metman1

Hi Qriz B, 
Here is photo of my meter cupboard . The problem is there is only one main fuse for two flats (on the far left ) this is why SSE will not change meter .They say each flat should have its own fuse ,so it is a cheap bodge job wiring ! As it is my want to change meter Landlord will not cover cost of updating wiring , saying its down to me . Which i will not do , so stuck with what i have.

SAC2334

You are fine with what you have . Its down to the landlord who has squeezed an extra meter onto the backboard to do a proper job . At some time though all those  meters will run out of certification and need switching to smart prepays . 
It looks like your meter is the middle one which has Eco 7 wiring .You can see all the details of rates and prices if you scroll through the menu by pressing the blue button.
You can see the normal day rate on either  registers  G or H ( it can vary according to which supplier you re with ) with the next register showing the unit rate of the day rate.

If its wired up for eco 7 then the next registers will show the unit rate and reading for night rate . Its been a few years since my meter reading days but its prob register J .
Soon as you top up and put the key in it will change the unit rate to the lower prices since July 1 st . 

Good idea to have a look at the debt screens and repayment screen whilst you re at it just in case its got some previous debts on it which are still current .. I think that will be screens S and T for these two importent registers 

metman1

Thanks for tris info . Have looked . this is what is showing ,if it makes sense ??
G  80308.59 kwh
H 56798.50 kwh Rate 1 
J 23510.48kwh Rate2
K 022.50 pence Rate 2
I  038.40 pence Rate 1
  No debts showing 
  Bearing in mind i have not topped up yet to get the new rates.

Gerry1

It seems SSE were happy to change your meter when they installed your existing meter at some point after February 2008.

The ACE 9000 KBD2E is shown as having a certified life of 15 years.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1156107/schedule-4-may-2023.pdf

If that applies to your meter then it's already life expired !